Larry Holmes was, as Ali himself said, a master boxer, with an extremely high ring IQ, who had good mobility for a big man and possessed a great left jab. His jabs were like a mix of Ali's (speed, movements) and Liston's (power) combine. He used his height and reach extremely well and although not a huge knockout puncher, he possessed a strong straight rights, right cross and uppercut. He also had a good chin and a huge heart. Larry was one of the best technicians in heavyweight history and he was solid defensively and had outstanding footwork. I am huge ali and tyson fan, but IMO larry is criminally underrated.
Very cool including Bowe here, he was incredible...for that whole year. But still, great is great and I agree h2h Bowe was a monster!
I think even 60s Ali would only SD prime Holmes. Louis is more difficult...Joe had the tools to stop Larry. But Larry was a greater boxer.
Cool post, but I don't know about Larry breezing past Liston. He'd beat him, but Liston had a LOT of tools.
Holmes was in no way ran close by Cooney. Almost everybody I've seen who can actually score a fight had Holmes vs Norton 9-6/10-5 Holmes. I fail to see what relevance Holmes' losses to Spinks have, given that he was well old for the pair of em, and arguably won the rematch. Furthermore, your logic is terrible. Holmes' struggles with Norton, Witherspoon etc are no worse than Wlad actually losing to guys like Sanders and Brewster. Nor is it worse than Ali actually losing to Norton. Or Marciano, struggling with Charles or Walcott. There is no 'reason' why he does poor H2H, because H2H is fictitious and imaginary, and that according to most, he wouldn't. Most do have in the top ten, which you can see by just reading this thread.
Then it can be placed in the unpopular opinions thread. Nothing I have heard changes my mind. He is not top 10 although he was still an ATG. He just did not show enough for me to rate him that highly ,there are many more dominant heavies to choose from.
Why is he not top ten? The reasons you've given have been poor. As they don't stand up to four of the five men you have in the top five, let alone top ten.
Holmes held the title for 7 years, unbeaten. Even in the end he was beating no-joke challengers: David Bey (who beat Greg Page, quite the win back then). Bonecrusher Smith (STOPPED Bonecrusher, even prime Tyson couldn't do that). Though the win over Carl Williams was close (Williams fudged the last four rounds imo), he still beat him, and Williams was an undoubtable "real" contender. Those three defenses occurred when he was well over 35...old age for most fighters. He defeated Shavers, who kicked the **** out of Norton, Young, and Ellis; Norton, who for all intents and purposes beat Ali in that 3rd fight, Ali even admitted that (plus he beat the more than formidable Jimmy Young); Mike Weaver (who ended up winning and holding onto the WBA title); Berbick (future world title holder, beat Page and Thomas I believe); Spinks (a world champ not even three years before, beat Ali); and Witherspoon (two time champ), and the aforementioned Bonecrusher (world champ not long after). He beat Spinks in the rematch (it still amazes me to see people dispute that, as few as they are), and even came out and beat Ray Mercer (who'd mercilessly slaughtered prime time Morrison) and ended up being ahead on prime Holyfield after seven rounds before fading. More than a few people thought he beat McCall (who knocked the living bejesus out of Lewis). So...NOT in the top 10? Maybe you should list ten heavies with better credentials. @George Crowcroft and I will be waiting. And BTW George is right. Holmes slapped the dog**** out of Cooney...and he wasn't even in his prime.
Holmes is one of the better heavyweights in history, no lower than top 4-8 heavyweights in history. And Head to head no more than 4-5 heavyweights in history would I favor over him prime vs prime.
Is this, like real? You have to excuse me I've been away for a while so I'm not sure if you're joking or not.
If everyone is always talking about how underrated you are .....then that means you’re really not underrated lol
@ironchamp @Toney F*** U @George Crowcroft Let’s all give balder 10 points off of our IQs...we’ll still be above average and he’ll still be a bit below but hopefully he’ll be able stop humiliating himself
Holmes was a lesser version of Ali. Name one ATG on his resume?. ( not a sick Ali)....Norton?...and that was a close fight. He managed to avoid most threats, and did not even unify the title. Positive - He had a great jab, was a good boxer, great recuperative powers, very good chin. Negatives, - fought down to level, could get hit and hurt, lost to Spinks -a light heavy, never dominated. Fought in weakest era. Got destroyed by Tyson. He just is not what people want to believe. IMO He is not good H2H against other proven ATG heavies.
10 that beat Holmes Tyson, Ali, VK, LL, WK, Frazier, Joe Louis, Dempsey, Walcott, Marciano, Liston. Oops, that was 11.....all beat him H2h...and I think quite a few more would as well.
