Larry Holmes v Joe Frazier's opponents circa 1968-75

Holmes wins them all.
Mathis w tko 8rds
Ramos w tko 4rds
Bonavena tko 11rds
Ziggy w ko1 rd
Quarry w tko 6rds
Ellis w tko 7rds
Foster wko2rds
Ali w dec15rds
Stander tko 6 rds
Foreman w dec 15rds
Bugner w dec15rds
Ali w split dec
Quarry w tko 4 rds
Ellis wtko 4 rds
Ali w dec 15rds

 

I think a prime Holmes would lose to the FOTC Ali.

 

The thing about prime Joe Frazier is nobody can pick fault with him until AFTER Frazier already beat the greatest heavyweight if all time.

 

I think the second Frazier fight saw a less ring rusty Ali so I made that a split dec .

I think he would lose to the Ali that stopped Williams.

 

With the qualification that said heavyweight had 18rounds of boxing in the last 4 years.

 

I based this on Holmes being 28 for all these fights. If we start him off in 1968 at age 28 and He finishes in 1975 at age 35, then he loses the 1975 Fight with Ali, and 1973 Foreman takes him out sooner.

Larry Holmes W15 Muhammad Ali
Larry Holmes TKO 7 Jimmy Ellis
Larry Holmes TKO 8 (Cuts) Jerry Quarry
Muhammad Ali W12 Larry Holmes
Larry Holmes W12 Joe Bugner
George Foreman KO 8 Larry Holmes
Larry Holmes TKO 9 Ron Stander
Larry Holmes KO 6 Terry Daniels
Muhammad Ali W15 Larry Holmes
Larry Holmes KO 8 Bob Foster
Larry Holmes TKO 10 Jimmy Ellis
Larry Homes W15 Jerry Quarrey
Larry Holmes KO 5 Dave Zyglewicz
Larry Homes W15 Oscar Bonavena
Larry Holmes TKO 8 Manuel Ramos
Larry Holmes TKO 11 Buster Mathis

 

One thing I noticed in the Ali-Holmes bloodbath, is when Ali danced it was Holmes who was actually defenseless. He had to follow Ali, and wait for him to stop before unloading on him.

 

Ali was coming off I8 championship rounds in 5 months against Frazier who fought only just 2 rounds (with a lightheavyweight) in the last 11 months. Frazier had not fought a career heavyweight since facing Quarry in 1969.

When vitali came back after a lengthy absence of 4 years to fight Samual Peter it was like he had never been away. Now I am not saying Ali can be expected to be as fast at 29 as he was at 25 years old but with those 18 rounds against top 5 rated contenders packed within the previous 5 months Ali was proberbly where he would have been by then had he not been away since the Folley fight.


Quarry and Bonavena were the best two warm up fights for Joe Frazier that anyone ever had. By comparison, Foreman challenged Frazier coming off a win over 4-15 Terry Sorrell.

 

Your ****ysis of Ali's capabilities does not jive with those of his trainer Angelo Dundee who said we never saw Ali's prime, that it would have been during those 4 years.
Neither does it concur with the opinions of Floyd Patterson and George Chuvalo, both of whom fought the prime version of Ali and the older comebacking one.Both agreed he was not as good and could not sustain his attacks and pace as he had pre exile. 18rds in 4years whatever way you slice it.:good

 

We saw Ali's prime. We just did not see the continuation of it. There was nothing more to come from him after the Folley fight just more of the same.

It's like Holmes against Co0ney. It's not Larry's absolute peak but he's close to it and capable of producing his biggest win. That's where Ali was versus Frazier. that was his Jerry C0oney fight.

 

Accurate

 

I disagree, and I have Dundee, Patterson ,and Chuvalo to endorse my opinion.

 

Or how about saying 18 rounds in the SIX months preceding the FOTC?

And those 18 rounds, btw, are NINE times the rounds Frazier had in the year preceding the FOTC.

Not to mention that Frazier was coming off a fractured ankle from fairly early in 1970 and had other health issues going into the FOTC.

It all evened out. Both Ali and Frazier knew that the FOTC was THEIR moment.

They were ready.

And Joe prevailed. :good

 

This is true.
It makes little sense to talk of a prime that we never saw. That's like someone talking about the great book they never wrote, or the billions of dollars they never made.

 

Frazier has more apologists for his defeats than any fighter I have ever known, to hear them talk his prime lasted about 1 year!
Yes he did 1 out of 3, and after "prevailing", he sh*t on his legacy by defending against 2 unranked nobodies, keeping his crown away from credible and deserving contenders for 2 whole years.