Larry Holmes v Wladamir Kiltschko

I agree. People seem to lable Norton as having a "glass jaw" but his main problem was that he froze up after getting tagged hard and was there to be overwhelmed by the follow up. It also doesn't help that he got blasted by arguably the 3 hardest punchers and was put away quickly by shots that would've KOd all but a handfull of fighters.

 

I've seen too many "glass jawed" fighters absorb bombs from strong bangers and not even blink.

Sometimes, when guys react to punches and do a dance, or scramble, or get wide eyed and hold, and people are going wild thinking he's hurt, it amuses me. Guys legs are fine, his head is clear. He's not hurt. He's panicking, or he's unsettled. He got cracked, he'd rather not get cracked again, his instincts for self-preservation are overriding his learning, and now would be a good time to hit him more.

 

What would you say about Herbie Hide's punch resistance or Haye's at cruiserweight? Psychological or more physiological?

 

Hide has a real issue with losing his legs on big shots.

Haye, it's psychological in it's entirety. He's only been down twice in his career, and he hasn't been badly hurt too much more than that. He just tends to fight negatively in spurts when he's wary, and his style is linear. I don't think Haye has demonstrated chin OR composure issues.

Temperament issues, certainly.

Look at Larry Holmes, to rope in the topic. Fighter's temperament. He was not only smart, but he was aggressive and always trying to make it happen. Wlad is a manager: He likes to get on top and stay on top, and when he isn't on top, he grinds the pace to a halt so he can grab at some more control. Haye is a spoiler. He's fast and powerful and athletic and coordinated, so when he's on top, he throws, he moves, he bombs, he looks good, but when he isn't, he stops throwing, and he waits to try to turn it around. He can be bullied and he can be cowed.

 

At cruiserweight, I think Haye definitely had legitimate physical issues with taking shots. It wasn't so much his chin as his general inability to take brain rattling shots of any kind. Mock clipped him on the top of the head and turned him jelly legged. Barrett later did the same at heavy. No doubt there was a temperament issue there, but I think it was as a result of physical issues that were present in the first place. His fighting heart is a little underrated, I think.

Anyway, this isn't a Haye thread. Was just interested in hearing your thoughts. Thanks brother.

 

Mock, Mormeck, Williams, Barret. I think those are the only times I've seen him hurt. Four aint bad.

 

Thompson as well.

 

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But Wlad landed just 12 on Haye per round, how could he ever beat Holmes?

 

Well, If Holmes ran and landed less than 5 shots a round, Wlad wins.