Larry Holmes vs George Foreman

Yeah but I can also see a scary first 4 rounds...

Wouldn't be shocked to see Foreman knock him down several times and stop him early either.

 

Larry is not going to have the time and room to do a lot. Foreman won't let him. Remember there was a reason why Ali went to the ropes he was in great condition but he couldn't move or sustain his movement because Foreman was so fast moving in. big George was cutting that ring down better than Ali he could move.
Point blank f Holmes doesn't land something big early to get George respect he's going to get run over. He's going to be roadkill. George Foreman was a terror in the first three or four rounds. Even if Larry gets through he's going to say his share of prayers in the process.

 

Awesome forum name, love Jake.

I can't see it as a shut out, though let's face it, despite what many think Ali pretty much shut out Foreman during their fight. George didn't even win a round in my book.

In fact, it looked to me Foreman was doomed against Ali from the beginning, and the way the latter kept picking on him I couldn't help but think this was the case.

Being that he's admitted to carrying certain opponents on other occasions, it wouldn't surprise me to find out Ali could have knocked George out earlier, he just wanted to give him the Terell treatment.

But that's testament to the awe-inspiring, borderline supernatural boxing skills and brilliance of Ali more than to George being a bad fighter. The latter just looked like one during the fight. In fact, George looked supremely lame (fortunately he never looked quite that bad again, though Morrison's perfect fight plan came close).

When considering this, we could also keep in mind how Morrison beat George rather handily, but then Morrison got the crap kicked out of him by Mercer and Mercer got punked bad by Holmes.

 

Well...that was a difference between Holmes and Ali; Holmes was overall a heavier puncher,(though Ali definitely had him on the left hook) thus able to establish himself quite early. He didn't get to be a solid puncher until shortly after the Norton fight, but it happened. Evangelista, Weaver, and good ole Leon could tell you 'bout all that better than me (let's not forget Ocasio getting knocked down by a bona fide jab, how often do you see that?)

How about Cooney taking that amazingly perfect straight right in the second round. If Holmes wasn't so concerned with the distance he probably could have ended it right there.

If we're talking about LH's prime being 29 or 30 he had his leverage issues mostly cleared up (and he accordingly slowed down a bit). It's hard to imagine Larry not landing one of his overhands or uppercuts on George early on (look at how warmed up he was for the really big fights), and he tended to throw them in combination. Hard to believe they wouldn't get George's attention, as it played out in my long scenario earlier.

For all the love I show Larry, George is one of my top three or four favorite fighters, and to be honest I would have been thrilled to see them fight (no matter how it went). I just don't see George lasting much beyond seven or eight rounds, Larry was too fast, too smart, he moved too well, and he hit too hard (for an adroit boxer-type).

 

I don't agree that Holmes was a heavier puncher than Ali. I don't think Cooney would have gone that late with Ali. I think the bigger factor was strength though. When Ali wanted to sit down on his shots he had good pop in both hands.
Ali did tend to fool around in his less dangerous fights. He let guys last longer than they would have.
Holmes could hurt you with that right but he would have to come out with the right mindset. Otherwise he will be back on his heels waiting for the ceiling to fall on him.
Not saying Holmes couldnt win. I favor Foreman 60-40

 

I was thinking about this timeless matchup again today...I just don't see prime George getting past the ninth round with Ali-beating Larry. I see a knockdown definitely happening, but Larry getting off the canvas, gaining control back quickly, and making George all swoll up and stumble-bumming. He would have looked like even more of zombie than he did in Zaire, all without Larry lying on the ropes (he wouldn't need to).

I think Larry would have done pretty much to George what Ali would have done had the heat not been so intense in Africa: moving to his left constantly, shooting the right hand both lead and following that vicious jab, tying up George whenever he even tried to get off.

I definitely can't see Holmes getting wasted in the early rounds, he was way too careful for that....more careful than Ali in fact. He'd spend those rounds measuring George, getting him in his sights. George would have to take too many steps and shifts in position to get set for punches, and he'd get very aggravated. That's the kind of fight Holmes liked. Larry was also big enough to expertly tie up George and keep him from being a bully...even during LH's decline he was really good at that (see his fight against Tyson, until age caught up).

Once George realizes his jab is almost useless, he'll start throwing wild punches, dressing himself up like a Thanksgiving turkey for Larry.

 

Holmes by TKO around the 9th or 10th at the latest prime for prime

 

Holmes by decision surviving a few wobbly moments in the first half of the fight. It would be in some ways similar than the Young fight

 

Whenever this fantasy match-up comes around, it invariably collects several speculations that favor a win for Holmes, in a manner of victory, which is strangely akin to Ali's defeat of Foreman, i.e. a stoppage win, which is in general, deemed to occur in the mid-to-late stages of the bout (round 7, 8....11, etc. - depending on whether we're talking 12 or 15 rounds).

I've more often than not considered this one to be a bit of a coin toss. However, the side of that coin reflecting a Holmes win has not included a stoppage. Perhaps, a decision win, if Holmes could make the distance, but never a KO/TKO.

That kind of result seems so unlikely, to me. Foreman was only ever stopped once in an 81-fight career and that happened to be at the hands of the best (or second-best) Heavyweight to have ever walked the planet. The idea that Holmes can replicate Ali's feat is quite the fantastic one. He had very good speed, but he had neither the speed of hand nor foot, of Ali. Nor, in my opinion, was Holmes as strong or as durable, as Ali.

Holmes, without doubt, was an exceptional Heavyweight - His Jab of course is legendary - and, this was as much a defensive as an offensive weapon for Holmes. This is fortunate, because his opportunities for offensive assaults on Foreman would be limited and so, rather than taking his usual approach of systematically breaking down his opponents, he would need to spend much time fending Foreman off with the Jab, taking any opportunities he could to shine and score - whilst always being on the move. In this way, Holmes might have enough to last the distance and scrape a decision win.

The alternative sees Foreman win by knockout.

 

Good point about Ali's strength, many people miss that in Ali's win.

 

I've always been of the opinion that Holmes would outbox him and George would tire and be stopped late , but there are some good points made by those who say George might get to him and stop Larry. Foreman was better at stalking opponents than people think.

 

I think this is an interesting, insightful idea. Except Larry punched harder than Young. Not sure George could have taken a fully warmed up Holmes-uppercut (or even overhand right) in the later rounds and survived.

I see Holmes landing one of those punches from round 8 on, knocking him down, then subjecting him to his usual volley of rights before the ref steps up to save a dazed Foreman.

 

To me the Foreman ko thing is harder to see. Shavers hit harder than Foreman, Holmes got up and was back fully in control within a round.

Prime Holmes always just seemed to get up, and both Weaver, Norton, and Shavers threw extremely hard punches at him. He just wouldn't get knocked out or stopped. I realize prime George was better than those fighters but...just me I guess.

 

I get it. Shavers might well have had a harder punch than Foreman and Holmes had incredible powers of recovery, but there's a point at which you just need to call a savage puncher a savage puncher and Foreman, like Shavers, was one. More than this, however, Foreman's relentless stalking, his ability to reduce the size of the ring and his ever-present menace would provide more potential for him to make and take offensive opportunities.

In short, Foreman posed a far greater offensive threat than Weaver, Norton, Shavers or anything Holmes ever faced and had Foreman dropped Holmes as Shavers did, in their second bout, Holmes would not have seen the end of the 7th round.

 

This would be one of the greatest matchups of all time. Two of the best, completely different boxers. I go back and forth on this one. But today, considering how Holmes handled Shavers twice and Cooney, no Cooney jokes please, he was bad-ss! I think I'd have to go with Holmes. When he's hurt, he's very fast on his feet to stay away, see shavers knockdown for reference. He's also fast on his feet keeping distance with big punchers, see Cooney fight for reference. But I think the guy who's jab works best might be the guy who wins, two of the best jabs in the business