Larry Holmes vs George Foreman

Have to agree here. George could bench press Larry. Much, much stronger.

That said, prime vs prime, man, I don't know. Great fight. Either George wins via knockout, or Holmes wins a decision.

Old vs old, I'm convinced old Holmes wins by ud. I don't think old Foreman would be able to contain old Larry's free movement, and spends the fight eating Larry's jab and straight right. I think he manages to stagger Larry a time or two, or even scores a knockdown, but Holmes recovers.

 

I always thought Holmes was a greater fighter in that he was more consistent than Foreman and could find a way to win more than George, who had one gear and did great in that gear, but if that gear did not work sometimes he had no answers.. Usually that gear worked since he was so strong and effective.

 

That was a kind of old post my friend. I changed my mind since then. George had plenty of heart before Lyle, and I think I misspoke when I mentioned Larry having more success than Ali in terms of grappling.

However, I do submit that Holmes had both a heavier and overall probably better jab than Ali, and a typically heavier right hand.

One thing that is pretty certain: Larry would not do a rope-a-dope against George. I stand by my assertion that when and if Holmes gets badly hurt and/or knocked down, the end is spelled out for Foreman. As good a finisher as Foreman was (and he was terrific), he was too wild in the 70s to not get foiled by Holmes. Plus, Holmes was quite adept at tying his man up.

I get the feeling the Norton Foreman would catch 1979 Holmes early, rock the hell and perhaps drop him, put everything into knocking him out and find out that's actually very difficult, then get seriously schooled unto exhaustion, dropped and stopped himself in 9 at the outside. The end would feature George stumbling and bumbling his way worse than even Zaire, his face puffed up practically beyond recognition. The Ali George fought still had marvelous ring IQ...the 1979 Holmes would have plenty of that AND all of his reflexes and boxing skill intact. It's a no-contest for Foreman, who'd probably only win the one round he drops Holmes in.

George himself admitted than most of his early 70s knockouts occurred because he would have serious tension and anxiety. That wouldn't work against prime Holmes at all imo.

George was a great, great fighter. But Holmes at his peak was not just better overall than 70s Foreman but significantly better (though not altogether different in many ways) than Zaire Ali.

 

This could well be the result. Although he claim that if Foreman hurt Holmes it would necessarily spell the end-for George-seems extreme!
I would like to see the quote by Foreman about why he scored the early KOs. He acknowledged how his nerves dissipated his energy, but he was really measured in certain fights, even when he bludgeoned some such as Chuvalo.

Also he is a very unreliable reporter in an unusual way.
He was gracious to the point of absurdity sometimes. Like saying-for comedic effect-he was glad Frazier did not look down during their face off because his knees were shaking.

The single thing I strongly disagree with you about was that peak Holmes was significantly better than Zaire Ali.
I would pick that Ali vs. Holmes, & though it could go either way, I think that Ali at the end of his second prime then was at least close to the level of any Holmes.

 

There's a lot of grounds (now that I think of it) for Zaire Ali being around the level of Holmes' prime...most especially considering Ali scored most likely his greatest, consummate victory against Foreman at that time. So I revise my view on that a bit...however, I still can't see the Holmes who beat Leon Spinks losing to him. Ali just didn't have the reflexes he did...

you know, you have me thinking. I keep seeing the second Norton fight, where Ali at times showed flashes of his 60s self.

I better think on that one, my friend.

 

Ali had lost little in hand speed, mainly his preternatural foot speed & ability to dance continually was greatly reduced.
Ali in Zaire was the last fight he was in his "second prime", & was very cagey, could sit down on his punches, take a great beating...
Some feel Ali's jab was better than Holmes because he could launch it so many ways/from different angles. I dunno if that is going too far, but it was great. Neither one used the uppercut or hooks much.

I appreciate your flexibility; it show real open mindedness & Ego Strength.
Almost as impressive as full range of motion dumbells presses for 8 reps...With 160 lbs. lol!

 

Styles go against Big George in this one. Holmes, by Unanimous Decision win. IMHO, of course.

 

Holmes mugs him. Foreman looked silly in there with Ali and Young with the way he held his hands out he’d cop all the same problems he did with Ali straight shots would just keep pouring through right up until the stoppage.

Old Holmes kept Tyson from chasing him down for 7? I forget the amount of rounds and right up until the last moment I don’t think Mike quite figured Holmes out. In there with George? Larry is just gonna prance around Foreman like no one else did and gun him down when he tires.

 

With Larry’s attitude I don’t think he’d be in the mood for 15 with a tired man he doesn’t like.

 

You know in all my time lurking I always felt like that Charlie poster was a girl all these countless posts about Foremans physique and strength what a weirdo.

 

Holmes wouldn't survive a strategy like that employed by Ali.

Young not only made everyone look bad, but he was also facing a diminished Foreman. Young doesn't survive Zaire Foreman, no matter what strategy he employs.

This is a close one and Holmes would be in the fight of his life.

Old Holmes didn't make it out of the fourth round against Tyson and arguably lost all three of the rounds, which preceded the stoppage.

Foreman cut the ring off from Ali, but wouldn't be able to do the same with Holmes?

Doubtful.

 

I look at this way. Maybe Holmes was a tiny bit less adept at landing his jab, but I think it's fair to say his jab landed a good bit harder. His jab would shut eyes, cut guys up, swell faces. It wasn't just used for scoring and setting up other punches, it did damage in its own right.

After re-watching the Holmes-Cobb fight recently, I had a funny thought of hand damage after that bout. Larry's left hand must have looked like a melon after that fight. I wonder what an x-ray of his left hand looks like these days. Probably has countless healed micro-fractures. Wonder if his hand hurts all the time -- I received the wonderful genetic gift of osteo-arthritis in my hands, and it isn't fun, some days they'll just throb in pain for no good reason, and I have done literally nothing in my life to damage my hands.

 

Larry Holmes UD

 

That’s interesting..because I always considered Larry Holmes underrated in the strength department...despite his flabby physique...but maybe I’m wrong ...I’ll rewatch some of his tape

 

The only thing Holmes did right...well, fairly right (lol) was tying up Mike in the early rounds, though I think the first knock down completely erased that technique in his mind from that point on. Had he been thinking and not (apparently) panicked, he could have lasted the round.

I think his panicking after the first round was a strong indicator of his ring rust, however it's dead certain he would have lost anyway (and that's coming from perhaps the biggest Holmes enthusiast here).