Larry Holmes .Vs. Joe Louis

Little Red,

Yes, if Larry Holmes made one small mistake in the ring versus 'The Brown Bomber', it would be lights out.

Nobody could finish you off like Joe. But, I think Larry would have just enough speed and movement to pull it off.

 

Holmes beats everyone on that list. BTW only one black fighter on that list.
Walcott is the only great fighter on that list and he beat the **** outta Joe in the first fight.
Baer brothers had no talant. Carnera? are you kidding me? Sharkey, JJB and Schmeiling all over the hill. Hell and already past his peak Schmeiling ko'd him as Joe rolled over and quit.
So tell me who's kidding who here.

 

So Holmes took Shavers best punch, gets up off the floor and kicks Shavers ass the rest of the round. Yet you have Joe KOing him.:huh

 

"One black fighter on that list"? Who were the great Black heavyweights Louis was ducking pre-1940? Leroy Haynes? Roscoe Toles? That's the best I can think of and neither were in the same league as Sharkey (who earlier beat both Wills and Godfrey), Carnera, Baer, Pastor, Farr or even Galento. There was no 30's Murderer's Row to speak of.

Max Baer had no talent? The only thing Max Baer did possess was talent. What he didn't have was dedication and focus. Instead, he menaced the division with arguably the greatest raw power it has ever seen. As pure an example of a guy who got by on talent alone.

Joe quit against Schmeling? I thought he got knocked the **** out after eating about a hundred flush right hands. I know, it's an unprecedented career story to be brought along too quick, suffer a defeat, reverse that defeat and dominate the division for over a decade. Like Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey before him, he lost early (against a World Champion, no less), regrouped and came back more vigorous.

And I love me some Larry Holmes. I think I have him #4 on my all time heavy list. It's just that I have Joe Louis #1 (and even I do not pick him over every heavy head to head). However, whereas we are discussing Max Baer and Sharkey and Carnera as Louis' fourth best opponents, with Holmes we would be discussing guys like Snipes.

And lastly regarding the Holmes weathering Shaver's best punch. Yes, Holmes had great recuperative powers. However, what championship calibre heavyweight did Shavers ever stop? A washed up Ken Norton (against whom Holmes had just gone life and death) is about it. Shavers was a great puncher but not an elite finisher. Once Joe Louis got an opponent buzzed, it was almost always over, no matter the level of his opponent. He is the greatest finisher the division has ever witnessed. If Louis gets Holmes wobbled, he would be all over him like white on rice, throwing precise, devastating combo's not those Shaver's haymakers from last week.

 

Say what you want about Baer he looks like **** on film to me. Joe did roll over, burry his head and quit against Schmeiling. I would have liked to see Louis's reaction after getting hit by that Shaver's rt. hand. My guess is he would of stayed down, hell he was wobbled by a feather fisted 168 lb. Conn. Norton fought one of the if not thee best fights of his life against Larry.
Its Louis that gets caught not Holmes.

 

I agree with RU, Holmes beat everyone on that list expect I don't see Holmes being decked by Braddock, Buddy, Walcott 3 times and KO'd by the smaller slighly past it Schmeling. Which large, fast, coordinated, durable and highly skilled heavyweight did Louis ever beat? For me beating Shavers x2, Weaver x2, Cooney, Spinks, Snipes, Williams, Witherspoon, Smith x2, Mercer and arguably Michael Spinks is more impressive than the names on the list you posted.

 

Shavers was a world class puncher but very sloppy when going for the finish vs Holmes.. Joe Louis was deadly when you were hurt, he doesn't let Holmes off the hook.. Comparing a fighter like Shavers who was destroyed in 1 round by Jerry Quarry to Joe Louis is not a fair comparison.. Holmes fought a lot of good fighters in his career but I think we can both agree he never fought anyone who could finish like Louis.. Tyson being the exception but I won't count his victory over Holmes since Larry was on the downside.. Point here is we never saw Prime Holmes there to be taken in a fight against an ATG puncher and finisher like Louis..

 

Just read your reply after I made mine, you and I seem to be completely in sync.. I also have Louis at 1 and am pretty sure Holmes at 4..

I have watched boxing for over 25 years and have in my collection pretty much everything there is available on Holmes and Louis.. And I feel as though you and I have a similar read on both of there careers, styles and opponents and what not.. I have no problem with people picking Holmes as it would be a great fight and both are atgs but I think some of the Louis opposition is being GREATLY undersold.. And as far as what would Louis do if Shavers connected on him, that question means nothing when comparing Holmes vs Louis.. My guess is Shavers never even makes it to round 7 against Louis as he would have already been knocked out by the Brown Bomber..

 

Wow. These guys are more impressive than Schmeling, Baer, Carnera and Sharkey? Leon ****ing Spinks?

Even this devout modernist blushes at this.

 

You could argue that Holmes beat better opposition, but it is always going to be a weak argument because it depends upon the assumption that B teir from era X were better than the A teir from era Y.

Basicaly Baer, Schmeling and Walcott are better than anybody Holmes beat unless you are going to disproportionately favour one decade over another.

Oh, and don't even dare to play the size card against Louis. He is more far proven against world class superheavyweights than most of the champions who came after, him including Holmes.

 

I mean no disrespect to Louis. He is an all time great. I just feel hes overrated. If you watch the KO he did roll over and burry his head. Im not Knocking him thats just what I see.
I think prime Ali-Holmes-Liston-Frazier-Dempsey -Tyson all beat him.
Tunney-Holy-Charles and Walcott are pick em against a prime Louis. I know Charles beat an old Louis and I think Walcott won first fight.
I also think Johnson and Rocky are overrated as hell but thats another story.

 

Without a doubt Holmes takes this. Boxing has evolved since Louis has fought obviously.