Larry Holmes vs. Max Baer

Look I enjoy Baer as much as the next guy and appreciate his relative size, reach, natural strength, right handed power and chin .. that being said I see him as mentally weak as a fighter, a front runner for sure and really not that skilled .. putting aside the puncher's chance that he would certainly have against Norton, Weaver and Williams I see all three of those guys having the jabs, speed, reach and power to outbox and frustrate him .. Witherspoon I see as flat out much better. I also see an equally strong, rugged and well conditioned Berbick as able to outwork Max .. Mercer with his iron chin would beat Max up .. now again, I'm using all these guys at their best. Could Max catch Norton and Weaver , sure but I can just as easily see Norton beating Max like he did a Quarry ..

 

I'm gonna be a it controversial and say I see a repeat of Holmes v ****ey.

Holmes late stoppage in a fight that is competitive until Holmes lands a big spiteful combo.

 

I see it different .. Baer really had a chin that no one but Louis cracked .. I see Larry boxing his head off and doing a Cobb .. if ****ey had Baer's chin he would have been a whole level better ..

 

I think that while Holmes has an obvious soft spot for the right hand, its a bit overstated and all too often used as a caveat to give lesser man a chance against him in fantasy fights... Larry Holmes fought in 75 professional bouts in a career which spanned 30 years through the age of 52 and saw meetings with countless big hitters.. In all that time he was stopped by ONE man who happened to be one of the fiercest punchers of all time and when Larry was 38 years of age, coming off a two year layoff... Its true that he was staggered or decked by big right hand hitters but look at who some of them were, yet no one else was able to triumph against him... A lucky punch is always a possibility in any fight especially at heavyweight. But I think its a real stretch to give Max Baer any significant odds at beating Larry Holmes.

 

I never read Baer as 6' 4" , always 6' 3" and he did lok three inches shorter than Primo .. that being said he was a big guy , no doubt .. talk about a guy that could have been 235 or so today ..

 

Routine win for Holmes

 

To give a fuller justification of Baer’s resume:

Baer first appears in the Ring’s end of year top 10 in 1930, when he was a local fighter on the California circuit. He is actually pretty consistent up to the death of Frankie Campbell that year, if a little prone to losing his temper. Note that all but one of his losses over this period are by DQ. I suspect that he started holding back after the Campbell fight, and that his explains his three losses in 1931.

Towards the end of 1931, he kinda sort gets his head together, and goes on a rampage. In 1932 he scored seven victories, which include wins over the ranked Levinsky and Schaff. He ends the year as the #2 contender. In 1933 he defeats the #1 rated Max Schmeling, to set up a title fight with Primo Carnera, which he obviously wins. At this point he has defeated the two best heavyweights in the world back to back, and it doesn’t look like there is any serious challenger out there for him, unless this Joe Louis kid turns out to be as good as people say.

In the end his fall is as dramatic as his rise. He loses his title to Jimmy Braddock, breaking both his hands in the process. He then loses to Joe Louis, perhaps breaking one of his hands again. He then spends 1936 fighting B and C level opposition, and seems to be out of serious title contention. He attempts a comeback against Tommy Farr in 1937, which ends in a loss.

Next something rather interesting happens. He reinvents himself with a cross armed defence, and goes on to enjoy an Indian summer in his career, regaining the #1 contender position. He wins a rematch against Tommy Farr to put himself back at the top, only to lose to Lou Nova. Lou Nova becomes the new #1 contender, and is so heavily hyped that some see him as a serious threat to Joe Louis. Nova then loses to Tony Galento in a shocking upset, and Baer then beats Galento to put himself back at the top of the division. In the end Baer does have one great performance left in him. He demolishes the highly rated Pat Comiskey (who had been widely tipped to bet Baer) in the first round, before Lou Nova put an end to his title ambitions for good.

This brings us to the matter of Baer’s longevity. He became the #2 contender in 1932, and he was still ranked #1 at the end of 1940. That is a long period for any heavyweight to be operating at that sort of level. He launched two assaults on the summit of the division six years apart, and while only one was successful, both saw him score multiple wins over fighters ranked in the upper end of the top ten.

Baer might have been an underachiever, he might have been inconsistent, and he might even have been a disappointment, but we should not underestimate what he did achieve. Did this clown achieve more in the grand scheme of things, than any of Holmes’s victims? I would have to say that he did!

 

I think ken Norton and Tim Witherspoon both had careers which eclipsed Max Baers, even if there wasn't a major movie which featured them as main characters.

 

With Ken Norton you could make the case, but I think that it would be a misguided one.

With Tim Witherspoon, I don’t think you have the ghost of a case.

Perhaps if he had done things differently, but you can say the same about Baer.

 

Not bad for a man with no real amateur background, who began his pro career in 1929. Also a pretty damning indictment of the weakness of his era.

 

If this was some fighter from the 70s, you would hold it up as a sign of what a phenomenal natural talent they were.

 

Baer was 6' 2.5"

 

He would have to prove his talent against a deeper and more talented division.