Larry Holmes vs Riddick Bowe

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And thank you! I don't know how this can be made any clearer. Holmes fights a top 5 fighter and earns a shot at the title, then he gets lambasted because he was given the opportunity to fight a contender in the first place. Just like you said, and I said to infinitum, George took the long road to the title. With his name recognition and legendary status as a former, big-punching heavyweight, Foreman could have engaged in numerous "marquis" fights against solid contenders virtually at any time during his comeback. He chose not to. Holmes, like you pointed out brilliantly, chose the quickest and riskiest path to a title shot. And he's faulted for that! The whole horse to water thing!

 

Many broken records play nothing but the truth!

 

They also sound like ****...

 

This post is so horribly over simplified its unbelievable. First of all, my initial comment was not who was more deserving of a title shot at Holyfield, but rather who had the better come back record, accomplishment, etc. Foreman's comp overall and his reults against such comp is generally better. Take the time to break it apart and its a no brainer.. Secondly to say that Holmes' path towards the title was risky Is just plain nonsense. He fought 5 tomato cans, then gets a 1 million dollar payday against a stylistically ideal opponent and a guarenteed shot at the title if he wins. Don't make it sound like he fought a whole string of contenders from day one, in an attempt to steadily work his way up the latter... Hell, Foreman having to go through 24 opponents over 4 years including Rodriguez, Cooney, Cooper, and Qawi contained a greater overall degree of risk for a man who was off for 10 years and facing dudes who had nothing to lose and everything to gain...........

You also still haven't acknowledged my point about the fact that nobody took a 40 year old trying to restart his career seriously until FOREMAN made them do so.... Without Foreman setting the trend, Larry Holmes is not getting a million dollar title elimination shot 4 years after being lamblasted in 4 rounds by Tyson.......

 

The Mercer that Holmes fought >>>>>Rodriguez, Cooney, Cooper, and Qawi and the other Third tier fighters that Foreman fought.

And yes fighting a legit top 5 guy in the world is a lot riskier then fighting no hopers and then getting a shot based on name.

Holmes took the shortest most direct route to the titleshot taking the risk against a legit contender .

Foreman took the longer LESS RISKIER route .

 

Do you even read posts, or do you just choose to ignore content that doesn't best suit your argument? Holmes may very well have been a tad more deserving of his title shot against Holyfield, but the margin wasn't by much, and if you want to compare who had the better comeback OVERALL, it was definately Foreman. Not even close.

 

Again wrong. Not when you consider the fighters Foreman fought. With exception to the one punch KO of Moorer, which he was losing every round of the fight, he lost to all the "name" fighters he faced. If you compare the body of fighters to each other win or lose, Holmes faced far tougher fighters. Again, look at the stylistic matchups. There wasnt one fighter in the whole group that on paper would box and show Foreman any type of dimension other than standing in front of him. The few that chameloned into boxers for one night that werent supposed to, beat him quite easily.

 

Okay let's do a comparison

FOREMAN'S BEST WINS IN COMEBACK:

1. Michael Moorer - 35-0, lineal heavyweight champion
2. Lou Savarese - 36-0, USBA heavyweight champion
3. Adilson Rodriguez - 36-2, Brazilian heavyweight champion
4. Alex Stewart - 28-3, fringe contender
5. Pierre Coetzer - 39-4,Fringe contender
6. Crawford Grimsley - 20-0 prospect
7. Jimmy Ellis - 17-0 prospect
8. Bert Cooper - Journeyman/fringe contender
9. Axel Schultz - 21-1, contender ( okay, Schultz got robbed )
10. Gerry Cooney - 28-2, faded veteran.

FOREMANS LOSSES:

1. Evander Holyfield
2. Tommy Morrison
3. SHannon Briggs - possible robbery

LARRY HOLMES BEST WINS IN COMEBACK

1. Ray Mercer - 18-0
2. Jessie Ferguson - 20-12, past prime journeyman.
3. Jose Ribalta - 33-9-1, past prime journeyman.
4. Mike Weaver - 41-17-1, faded veteran
5. James Smith - 44-16-1, faded veteran
6. Butterbean Esche - 65-2-3, make of him what you will
7. Paul Poirer - 29-2, journeyman
8. Michael Greer - 42-11, past prime journeyman
9. Ken Lakusta - 21-19-1, tomato can
10. Quin Navarre- 17-3-1, journeyman.


LARRY HOLMES LOSSES IN COMEBACK:

1. Evander Holyfield
2. Brian Nelson
3. Oliver McCall


ANALYSIS: In the loss department, I'd say these guys are basically tied. No real difference there, and even if there is, its marginal at best. From there on out however its not even close. George Foreman had a comeback record of 31-3-26, while Holmes' second career consisted of 21-3-10. Additionally, their competition weighs heavily in favor of Foreman. Foreman's best comeback win was his KO of Michael Moorer - a 35-0 lineal champion who had just taken the title from Evander Holyfield, making Foreman the oldest man to ever regain the lineal crown. Holme's best victory was his decision over Ray Mercer - an 18-0 prospect who's best win was over Tommy Morrison. Clearly Foreman takes the cake in terms of single best win. As we go further down the line to second tier opponents, it gets rather ugly. Foreman fought a fair number of undefeated prospects, fringe contenders and respectable journeyman who's ages ranged anywhere from late 20's to perhaps early 30's, and who had fairly respectable records. Larry Holmes was fighting 40+ year old former champs, ex-contenders and journeyman who sometimes even crossed into the realm of tomato can.. Once again, Foreman's comeback made history by shocking the boxing world to regain the heavweight title 20 years after his first reign. Larry Holmes failed on all three of his attempts to win back a strap, including against two of the worst alpha titists of all time in Brian Nelson and Oliver McCall........

CONCLUSION : Some might make a valid argument that Larry Holmes was a tad more deserving of his title shot at Evander Holyfield than Foreman was by virtue of his win over Mercer. That's fine, but if we're talking about who had the better comeback run overall, the award goes to George Foreman and its not even close.

1. Foreman had the better comeback record
2. Foreman finished his comeback with wins over better opponents
3. Foreman regained the heavyweight title, while Holmes didn't

 

On paper, Foreman had a better 90's run, but I feel performance wise Larry did much better.

 

Again as I beat the dead horse, look at the stylistic matchups. Do you just look at records when analyzing a fighter? Would you think Peter McNeeley was a dynamo when he faced Mike Tyson? He had lost once in 36 fights and was a ranked contender.:huh
Do you know much about these fighters and their fighting stlyes? Look at the fighters that Holmes faced and watch some of their fights as compared to the figthers that Foreman faced. Were the titles that Adison Rodriquez and Lou Savarese held, that impressive? Savarese won the USBA title by beating Buster Mathis Jr. Did Foreman dominate the better opposition he beat? A few of his other wins were controversial as well, Shultz Stewart, even Savarese were close fights. What does that tell you?
In my mind beating Mercer at that time was a bigger accomplishment than George landing a one punch knockout on Moorer after losing every round.
Plus Larry fought far more competitively in his losses against the better fighters, where as George was completely shut out.

 

On paper Peter McNeely and Butterbean had stellar records. In reality they were **** fighters. Thats what Im trying to get through to Mr Magoo, boxing in the 90's forward, a fighters record on paper wasnt worth the paper it was written on.

 

Rather than continuously ignoring the hard facts like a complete nut-job, why don't you do an honest comparison between Foreman's comeback accomplishments and Holmes ie, competition, stats, etc? To be honest, I'm beginning to think you're incapable....

 

The question here is not weather or not these men were stellar in their abilities, but rather if Holmes' opponents were better. Are you seriously going to tell me that a totally shot version of Jesse Ferguson, exhumed remains of James Smith or Butterbean " fatass " Esche was better than Lou Savarese, Pierre Coetzer or Alex Stewart ? Because if you are then I have to question your honesty..

It tells me that he fought better men, explaining why he struggled in some of those fights. Again if you think the dead beats that Holmes fought were better than say Addilson Rodriguez ( actually a pretty good boxer by the way ), then again I have to question your honesty ( and probably knowledge ).

Losing every round or not, Foreman was facing a far more accomplished fighter and still produced a legitimate win, and made absolute history in doing so. Hell, it was one of the biggest wins of the 90's... So what if he came from behind to do it..

 

Your love affair with Big George continues. Foreman fought bums to earn a shot at Holyfield. Holmes fought a contender in Ray Mercer to earn his. Larry Holmes fought a legitimate contender in order to fight for the title; Foreman roamed the country fighting in little tank towns against no-hopers all the while proclaiming how he couldn't get fights with any top guys. Foreman was too greedy to risk losing his coveted multi-million dollar payday by fighting any real fighters. I don't know why it pains you so to just admit that Larry Holmes earned his shot at the title. You can try and spin it any way you like and make noise to the contrary, but the bottom line is Holmes took the risk by fighting Ray Mercer. The way you casually dismiss the magnitude of a Mercer/Holmes fight is suspicious, especially considering how you lionize Foreman's comeback opponents pre-Holyfield. Get mad at Foreman for not taking a risk and fighting a live body before fighting Holyfield, don't get mad at Larry because he took a risk and was rewarded for that risk. Ray Mercer was no Ken Lakusta or Mark Young or Mike Jameson.