Larry Holmes vs. Rocky Marciano

Hey, fair enough for sure. I think he would prevail over both in utterly gruelling fights won by sheer will and determination as much as by skill and ability. A totally crap Larry lasting as long as he did with Tyson with no offensive skill whatsoever gives me a little hope. Peak Larry, firing that jab often, lateral movement, the odd sizzling cross or uppercut to keep his man honest and either tying Tyson up or dancing away when at midrange.Holmes, cautious early and not engaging unless he has to notices Tyson tiring as early as round 5 or 6. If Tyson didn't get you with his early sabotages he oft didn't get you at all. I think Holmes guile gets him thru to the latter rounds where he gradually takes over the fight with Tyson's offense growing weaker by the round. Tyson, frustrated and lost succumbs late with Holmes superior stamina allowing him to mount a late barrage and seal the deal.

 

The question that nobody has yet asked is which of Holmses oponents was most like Marciano.

Thoughts?

 

None of em, he's a substancially better fighter than the lot. Never fought anyone remotely like him IMO.

 

Yeah, but Larry hadn't cultivated his jab yet. Sparring isn't always a significant indicator of what a competitive outcome might be. Boogaloo Watts injured and decked Hagler with a body attack while sparring, after Marv kayoed him in competition.

As rusty and mistimed as Holmes was against Tyson, he still posed some problems with his height and reach. Marciano had shorter arms, probably slower fists, and certainly slower feet. It merits reminding that Holmes was dominant in the two title defenses where he was floored, both before and after those knockdowns against Snipes and Shavers. While Jersey Joe Walcott was getting fatigued by the end of his first tiff with Louis, he displayed no such slippage before Marciano's sudden knockout to win the title. Larry wasn't wiped out at the end of his 15 rounds against Berbick and Cobb, nor do I think he would be against Rocky. For most of the match, I doubt that Holmes would let him get close enough to pound away at the arms or any other part of his anatomy with any regularity. Seeing the visual of Marciano in the ring with Ali does sort of reinforce that impression in my mind.

If Walcott hadn't sustained a vision impairing cut against Rocky, he probably would have defended the title successfully. At his peak, Holmes's skin was far less likely to get cut than the 38 year old Walcott's was.

 

Extremely winded? He was that maybe twice in his career. And only once in his prime. He was winded against Norton at the middle of the 15th round, but, who wouldn't be besides Marciano? Larry was fine against Berbick and Cobb at the end of 15 rounds. He was all right at the end of 15 rounds against Williams and Spinks, and he was about 3 years past his prime by then.

 

When looking at Rocky stylistically, we need to be careful here.

Charley Goldman was continually refining Rocky's style. Up until (but not including) the first Charles fight, Marciano was a home run hitter, throwing nearly every punch with knockout force.
Goldman considered him too easy to counter that way, and he started to shorten Marciano's stance. He also started emphasising shorter punches inside instead of those big, looping rights.
Basically, he made a small sacrifice in terms of power, but made up for it in volume, and increased defensive positioning.

Just thought I'd point that out.

 

In 1973 Frazier broke Larry's rib in sparring yes. Larry hadn't devolped a jab yet, and had only been boxing for 4 years. But he was already on a high enough level to be sparring ATG's before he was pro, and on his pro debut. Cooney had one of the hardest, if not the hardest left hooks of all time, and his money punch was his left hook to the liver. Larry was only noticably hurt twice by those body shots, not including all of the low blows Cooney hit Larry with.

 

holmes.but if rocky had the advancements in sports technology of today then what kind of fight is it?

 

so with this are you saying holmes was more of a go the distance fighter instead of a power punchin ko artist?just curious.

 

What would you count as such advances (minus steroids say)

 

trainers,advancements in equipment and facilities,legal suppllements etc..

 

A cruiserweight bout for Marciano.

 

so then its a complete mismatch

 

That is one area where training methods has regresed substantialy since Rockys day.

There is not a trainer around today of the calibre of Charlie Goldman.

 

I don't know if I agree. How many champions did Emanuel Steward, Angelo Dundee, Gil Clancy and Lou Duva train? Besides, that's just to name a few.