Larry Holmes vs Rocky Marciano

15 fight guys and a guy GC that never went past 8 rds and the 1st 2 were questionable decisions that were not rematched

 

All three beat two of Marciano's challengers.
And Holmes was defending against them at an age when Marciano was safely retired.
Four of Marciano's best scalps are over former light heavies.
Three are over men 37,38 ,and39 years old.

 

Maybe Kockel but not a certainty ....Holmes liked the guys with 10 fights-Marvis and Leon (who was already KO'd in 1 by Coetzee)12 fights, 13 fights 14 fights Bey and Smith-15 -16 fights Williams and Witherspoon disputed, and the 2 best right hands he got hit with almost finished him....Marciano could hit but he was also a finisher...Shavers is known as a puncher but who did he finish....Norton and an old Ellis a 7 fight Young...the guys that survived him were many, Ali, Lyle,Quarry,Cobb,Mercado,Stallings,Stander,Rondon (who was KO'd by Bennie Briscoe and Bob Foster

Marciano was relentless and had 2-fisted power Holmes gets caught and finished. Marciano was a finisher and an ATG...Shavers was more of a Satterfield type but slower

 

You could also tell the 44 guys who went south at the hands of Holmes that he couldn't punch really. Including the 14 that went south in title defences, all bigger and heavier than the 5 Marciano defended against.

 

Mcveys naming guys who arguably beat Larry Holmes

Guys who were never granted rematches

 

Guys a lot younger than the old geezers Rocky defended against.

 

Lastarza wasn't much, he was a carefully managed fighter who has most of the iron of his division conspicuously missing from his resume.

 

In your mind ...


That is simply a part of what being athletic is about. Knowing and possessing the mechanics to shift your weight and apply the maximum force available from your body. Whether throwing a baseball, a football, or a punch in combat. Or, running or jumping or shifting in an exercise of agility. Even the application of your power as a rock drummer, for example. All can be optimized or are optimal or sub-optimal relative to others with your or comparable physical characteristics or dimensions.

Don't obfuscate because you don't like the message and feel compelled to find something to hang a hat on ...

The topic is not prime Marciano against limited second rate but larger heavyweights who have poor mechanics (i.e., are of inferior athletic quality).

The extreme can make the point. I can take the best trained most gifted natural puncher who ever walked the planet of this size - but weighs 115 lbs - and a second rate professional 215 lber and let them punch you in the chops or mid-section. You let me know which one you want to take first ... if I tell you (that) you only have to take one. The line for a punch from the tiny guy is going to need to have a ticket booth passing out numbers.

What Marciano brings at 188 lbs is still limited to what 188 lbs (his mass) combined with his acceleration can generate. It isn't even CLOSE - NOT WITHIN A MILE - of what another short heavyweight with better mass - TYSON, and much better acceleration generated EVEN if we chose to assume that their mechanics were comparable.

Mike devastated an OLD OLD OLD Holmes not a prime one. It wasn't a match that needed to be made or should have been. Nonetheless, Marciano is levels below Tyson in power. He may be "Tyson" for his era or "Tyson" for 188 lbs. But, he is not Tyson facing Holmes because he does not replicate his attributes sufficiently. No one generates exceptional force relative to a heavier, faster man with skills because of his inexplicably magic "slow hands" and slow body movements.

One can believe and say that Rock was a powerful puncher for a 188 lb man or professional boxer. One can believe and say that Rock took a great punch because of his build and that rather large head for a man of 188 lbs. One can recount the reality that a prime Rock was able to beat all the ATGs he faced in his era and the several small ATGs (ex-LHWs) at heavyweight when they were OLD and/or worn while weighing 188 lbs. None of that means a thing though or is demonstrable about being successful against an equivalently physically prime Larry Holmes who is a quality fighter who would possess the advantage of 5 inches in height, 27 to 32 lbs in weight, thirteen inches in length/reach, and better movement and even speed over the much smaller fighter.

Has anyone here ever fought another man in any context in which they gave up 5 inches and 30 lbs (or more)? It is immediately more than just needing to be slightly more talented, skilled, or trained than a man your own size. Everything is more difficult. The extension to land is different. The vulnerability to glancing punches is enhanced. You had better have the advantage in speed and quickness. You are going to need to have to land more punches than the bigger more massive man. You are going to need to have to be able to move (jump) into range, strike before the bigger (ideally) slower man can react, and avoid much of what comes back. If you can't finish him quickly in a flurry of punches or are not quick enough to fight that fight of in-and-out or counter-punching then your deficit in weight (mass) and force (power) will all take its eventual toll. Being slow or slower against a bigger man means you get hit at range and hurt as you close the distance. Taking two to land one means you get attrited. There is no scenario in which Marciano has an easy time with Holmes. NONE.

 

Shavers was 6 ft. and 209lbs was a one punch banger but limited, had poor stamina and was a poor finisher. He may have been Larry's best opponent but I think he was not close to being the best fighter that was available for Larry to fight its funny that most on here rate Larry so high, he had the longevity but did not fight the best fights against the best and there was an ample window of opportunity to make these $ fights- Coetzee, Thomas,Tate,Weaver,Dokes,Page or rematched old Norton, 16 fight Williams and Witherspoon

I think if Holmes had fought the best of his times we wouldn't have to wait for a young Tyson to show us the right hand effect because I fear like Larry and King that Larry would have lost earlier

 

Those old geezers still would have whipped Holmes embryos

 

Being the larger fighter, having longer reach, being taller, being cut, weighing more.....none of this means you can fight. None of this means you will win over a smaller fighter, none of this means you will hit harder than a smaller fighter. A few people here need to understand what it means to be a great fighter. Marciano is not overrated. One of the greatest hwts we have ever had. At one time I thought different and I was wrong. Very special fighter was Rocky Marciano.

 

Hitting very hard requires the ability to put ones body weight behind the punch. Some fighters have this ability most do not. Holmes did not. Marciano certainly did. No one who fought Rocky said he did not punch very hard. Just the opposite. Rocky like Dempsey and Tyson could Ko any man at any weight.

 

I think Holmes is good enough to take one out of three against a prime Ali.
I think Holmes is top 6 ATG at heavy.

 

Yeah sure ,like they whipped Layne, Valdes,Ray, Patterson ,and Johnson.

 

I'm 5'8.5"I fought a guy 6'3"224lbs. I weighed about 170lbs then .It was like hitting a rubber matress,I couldn't physically move him.