Larry Holmes vs Rocky Marciano

Perry, you simply DKSAB per se. The fact that you totally deny Holmes fought more often at 220, than he did at 210 simply proves this to be the case.

I also know enough to know there are sadly too many fan boy types such as you, who come up with an agenda of the month, year, ( whatever ) and then invent, and / or grossly exaggerate what quite frankly can only be considered nonsense to try to justify said agenda.

Here is a well known saying, older in fact that Marciano would be were he still alive.

" A good big un, will always beat a good little un "

The people who used that well known cliche, as a means of judging knew far more about fights, fighters, and fighting, than you will EVER know.

 

I agree with what your saying about Marciano being cuter in there than given credit for but at the same time not many heavyweights had a jab like Larry Holmes. It was uncommon. He was so quick with it and he pop on it. It wasn`t a light punch. Just saying I think the jab is a big hurdle in this matchup.

 

Not really.

Moore and Charles were great fighters no question but they were not great heavyweights. Definitely not at the time Rocky faced them.

 

I'm not desperate at all Marciano never scaled 190 in a title defence,and Holmes only scaled as low as 210 once for a defence, that was against Shavers.

What you are doing is adding to one and subtracting from the other, that's desperation.

 

That is the total conundrum regarding Marciano. He had only 7 title fights against 5 men, 2 of which were decidedly average, 1 a Light Heavy, and the other 2 so far past their sell by dates it would have been laughable had it not been so tragic.

It makes you wonder if there isn't some ulterior motive behind the adulation. Racism perhaps that has just been accepted / unchallenged through the generations?

There can be no doubt that racism ( as in the NEED for a white H.W. champion ) still played a big part in American society in the 40's and 50's. So maybe the myth started then and gathered momentum. Who knows?

 

Holmes in his best shape was around 210 pounds. You want to pick an older and or less in shape Holmes? Then it's higher. I seriously doubt Holmes walks into the ring in anything less than perfect shape against Marciano. Not a fan boy but just know more about boxing than either Foxy or Mcvey. Watch Rocky fight and count the blows he makes Charles and Walcott miss. Marciano was cute in there and his ability to make himself a small target and use his bobbing and weaving style to effectively make opponents miss and close the distance.

 

what I said was they were champs and they would have long reigns against that sort of opposition...the opposition that Larry plucked from the group, the lesser of the evil

 

or it could be that the racism is reverse when it comes to Marciano, seems to be an obsession that his opponents were too small, too old but in fact they were the best of the era, the men that beat the bigger, younger men....check the stats

 

Racism? Have you no shame? He is the only hwt champion never to have been defeated and he fought every challenger black or white. He led a clean life and never in any way disrespected an opponent or his title. Such a remarkable career and you and everyone else who know and respect the game should respect his accomplishments.

 

I can`t discount race playing a part in his popularity with some folks. I`m sure it does. At the same time I`m sure a lot of it has to do with the fact that he was an exciting warrior type of fighter. He had the crowd pleasing style not to mention he was really good. Nobody ever fought harder or put more of themselves out there than Rocky Marciano did.
So it's probably a bit of both.

 

They were the best of the era ,they were also old , relatively small. Rocky's three best opponents were definitely past their primes and two of them were ex light heavies, where they were at their best.
Marciano was fortunate that he rose to prominence in that era.
I do not believe he would be champion post Patterson onwards.
I see Dempsey coping a lot better in other eras than Rocky,because he was quicker of hand and foot, more elusive defensively, was not prone to cuts, and had more size to go with his talent.

 

Watch Rocky fight and count the blows he misses and by feet! Marciano fought out of a half crouch allways leaning to his right ,his right glove up to the left side of his face , open to catch his opponents shot.
He was slow on his feet and not quick at getting into range as you aver.
Compared to Dempsey he was a tortoise.
You try to portray him as an early Frazier who was much quicker in body and head movement, and with both hand and feet.
I'm not getting into a " I know more than you debate" with you.

I leave that for kids.

 

Moore was fighting as good as ever. He was the number 1 heavyweight contender...he was coming off of wins over feared top contender big Nino Valdez Harold Johnson Clarence Henry and bob baker. Moore has cleaned out the heavyweight division and was 45-1 in his last 46 fights