Yea no Archie Moore started as a middleweight and was his best as at 175lbs. He got whipped by Floyd Patterson about a year or so later. Nobody rates Patterson as a great heavyweight.
I think Patterson's best wins were over Moore and Ingo (fight 2) but while Floyd had some excellent skill he had a problem with punchers, again not just punches but those who could find the target and put on pressure. I think an injured Floyd gave Ali 2 good fights despite fighting with a bad back and his experience allowed him some very good fights when older and many felt he beat Ellis, he did beat Bonavena (he made a trip to the canvas) I dont think Floyd was as good a heavyweight as Walcott or Charles but he did have his moments of speed and excellence despite being the among most dropped heavyweight. So while Patterson could be excellent and great against some he had his major flaws. A good example would be Ken Norton who fought Ali even and as an older version gave Holmes hell but could not fight a pressure puncher. Its rare to find an ATG that could do it all....Moore was battered by Marciano to the head and body and then matched against the youthful speed of Patterson and Floyd fought him perfect so while Floyd may have been the fastest handed Heavyweight he was among the most dropped I also think its quite an honor to be rated in the top 20-25 of a division with all of the great fighters that have engaged in the last 100 + years
With the username you have, don't even mention the word intelligence. The height of fuking stupidity is trying to claim Walcott, Charles, or Moore were anything like great opposition for Marciano at the time they fought him. I mean lets be completely idiotic and give Ali great kudos for beating up and stopping Moore 7 years later, in less than half the time it took Marciano. After all the Marciano freaks are quick to point out Archie was in the top ten hardest punchers EVER, was ranked in the top 100 Heavies EVER, was in the top 10 p4p EVER. Went on to beat plenty of very good Heavies, blah, blah, blah.:roll::roll::roll:
You better get yourself a new shovel. The way you are digging that one will wear out very quickly. So you are claiming a guy who stopped 44 men the majority of which weighed well over 200 pounds was " not a puncher." I think devastating is the word you were looking for. I would hazard it would be easier for Holmes to stop the 39 year old's Walcott, and Moore or Charles than it would be to stop Bey, Bonecrusher Smith, C &£ ney, Snipes, Shavers, even LeDoux. Particularly at the 220 he fought most of his fights at.
Everyone knows and Holmes will tell you himself he was no puncher. Any power he had was in his right hand. No left hook at all. Norton who fought them both stated Ali hit much harder than Holmes. Ali is typically considered a boxer rather than puncher. Again a puncher at 190 pounds will hit harder than a fighter at 220 who is not a puncher. Obvious known fact that you somehow seem to be oblivious of.
Holmes in his best shape, prime weight was a 210 pound hwt. Look at his two best wins. Norton (his best by far) 208. ****ey...212. Like Ali he trained down less for poorer opposition and naturally gained weight as he grew older and away from his prime. Study up!
Where the hell do you get this sh/t? "A puncher at 190 pounds will hit harder than a fighter at 220 who is not a puncher." Again, as before, you claim this is a "fact." Not to be overly dismissive, but are you 12 or something? What clinical study are you gleaming this "fact" from? I'd like to read the report.
Do you think Ali at 215 hit harder than Frazier at 205? Do you think Carnera at 260 hit harder than Louis at 198? Do you think nearly every hwt that fought prime Marciano who outweighed him hit harder than he did? Do you think Carnera at 260 hit harder an Max Baer at 215? If you answered yes to any of these questions consider yourself a boxing moron. Or perhaps one of those MMA types who look at size, weight and physique before ability. Power punching , the ability to hit very hard, is a skill which only a small% of hwts possess. You can be a big man and have little punching power and you can be much smaller and lighter and possess great Ko power. Boxing 101. You failed this course my friend!
I think 12 is a tad too low. 16 - 18 tops. Only an idiot or a teenager would claim a guy with 44 stoppage wins to his credit out of 75 fights was not a puncher. A non puncher would be Ricky Burns, or Nobuhrio Ishida. For now I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and consider him a teenager.
