Larry Holmes vs. Rocky Marciano

Can anyone name me one big fight holmes was in where he wasnt getting tagged by right hands? I rewatched bonecrusher, Weaver, Spoon, Norton, Shavers fights..right hand right hand right hand. I mean...DAMM! Holmes would have had his hands full with Coetzee, Page and Thomas.


Advantages for Marciano:

- Holmes habit of trying to brawl his way out of trouble

-Rockys big Suzie Q Right hand, Holmes big vunerability to overhand rights.

- Rockys ability outwork holmes in the trenches in the gruelling championship rounds

-Rockys low crouch weaving in and out of traffic will make holmes straight fast punches from a downward angle difficult to pinpoint.

- Rockys ferociouness when he has his man on the ropes



Holmes advantages

- Holmes left jab. It will cut rocky and land frequently, its one of the finest ever

- Holmes sharp fast 1-2s and right uppercuts will give rocky problems in long range and in close.

- Holmes size, he is a skilled great big man, which plays dividends against a smaller but ruthless slugger. Couple the size with his boxing skills and he will outbox the slugger on many occasions.


- Holmes amazing heart might be able to bail him out vs marciano in the championship rounds or if he gets in trouble

 

Exactly it was no acident that he avoided those good right hand punchers

 

Larry by late round stoppage due to cuts. At 6'3" 215lbs with an 80" reach, one of the best jabs in the history of the division and plenty of mobility, one has to wonder how the hell Marciano even reaches Holmes let alone beat him. A prime Holmes was light years ahead of any opponent Rocky ever faced with all due respect to men like Walcott, Charles et al. Larry would use a similar strategy as he used in his first fight with Shavers which was near picture perfect against a potent puncher, jab and move, give angles, stay off the ropes, set up the right hand and be in great condition. Holmes would probably cut Rocky early and work on the cut(s) all night prompting the ref to call a halt somewhere around the 10th. Rocky would be game but outclassed. Too much size, speed and skill this time around.

 

Size did not help Larry when he was taken out on a stretcher vs 5"10 Nick Wells 2 times for the nationals and it did not help him vs Tyson...even though he was old....How would all the good right hand punchers Larry avoided have done if Larry fought them? Shavers had no follow up and NO stamina....Marciano had both

 

Thast's a bit harsh Bummy

 

Ted Spoon, the pompous ass that he can be, is exactly correct. As always.

God bless Ted Spoon.

 

Yet he fought the best right hand puncher of them all not once but twice.Shavers.Strange that.

 

I watched Shavers and he could punch but he did not have a multitude of right hand punches. like Marciano..I have seen him against Stander,Stallings,Quarry,RondonLyle,Cobb(who did not miss a shot) and I just feel his lack of stamina and solid chin puts him in a class of a puncher but lacking in areas, like Bob Satterfeild. He did drop Holmes and KO Norton but Norton was Ko'd by every puncher with a pulse and Holmes was dropped and Ko'd by right hands in the amatuers and Renaldo Snipes dropped him heavy in the pros, he was also shook by Witherspoon who could punch but other than the Bruno and Gonzales stops most of Witherspoons wins or loses were by the split decision verdict. Difference was Marciano did not let up and did not discourage and he was always fit to keep punching at an incredible pace. Holmes had a lot of heart and skill but I always wondered how his right hand vulnerabilty would do vs Dokes,Thomas,Page,improved Weaver,Coetzee,Tate...these guys were the co-champs and # 1 contenders of his era and BETER right hand punchers of his era....but we will NEVER know

 

I actually like Rocky in this in that Holmes had trouble with short crouch fighters and Rocky was probably the one of the best crouch fighters ever

 

Walcott was extrremely gifted i think he had just as many and possibly more skill that Holmes aside from the jab which Holmes takes hands down...Archie moore,Ezzard Charles,Lastarza,all were very skilled fighters.The size would not be too much of a factor because 187 to 215 is not that bad and when the power ,conditioning,styles,and Larrys courage which could prove to work against hime in this fight would all come into play.........I think Rocky had a hell of a chance to win this one a hell of a chance..Ali later said even for an old man he could not beleive the physical strength Rocky had,and Joe Louis said it hurt just bumping into him.So i think his size sometimes is overlooks his physical strength and tell me when you ever saw him back up,when you have someone constantly backpeddling you that takes a ton out of you physically and mentally

 

That was an amateur fight when Holmes was but 185 pounds, and very green. It means very little in the context of this thread. Shavers' stamina was not that bad. Shavers went 15 with Ali, 12 with Holmes, and 10 on a few occasions. Shavers was a pressure fighter. The only fight I saw Shavers in where he gassed was vs Tex Cobb, and Shavers was on the decline and matched up vs tough guy to get out of there when that one happened.

Rocky's chances of landing a big right hand in this fight was not so great. Marciano typically landed his right hands when the other guy on the ropes. Holmes would not be hanging around the ropes, and his mobility, height, weight, and range in this match up would be significant. Even if Rocky did land one or two good ones, Holmes has shown the ability to take it, get up if needed, and recover.

Rocky fans think he could make it a war. The trouble is on flimed fights vs guys like Lastarza, Cockell, and Chalres it too a while for the type of fight Rocky wanted to happen. If Chalres could pretty much stand by choice and go toe to to with Marciano for many rounds, Holmes if he had to do so could do the same. Holmes was a pretty good in-fighter too. He could body punch well or use an uppercut.

I think Marciano would have a better chance vs Ali than Holmes. Why? Ali didn't use an uppercut often, hung around the ropes, and was fundamentley flawed.

 

Marciano by mid-late round KO. Holmes had too much trouble with old Ken Norton and a lot of average fighters for me to rank him toword the top of ATG status. He had tremendous heart and that saved him from being KO'd on several occasions. Getting off the canvas after that shot by Shavers is one of the greatest should have been KTFO punches ever taken.

That being said, Marciano was a much better fighter than Shavers, as well as Holmes other opponents, on offense and defense. His crouch style and unpredictable angles would make it very difficult for Holmes to sustain a consistant attack. Rocky would apply his unorthodox pressure and I'm sure he'd get to Holmes, pretty much everyone did. Holmes would get Kd'd and most likely get up, but Marciano's relentless followup attack would be too much and Holmes would go down for good or the ref. stops it.

Could Holmes win? You bet! If he chose to jab the entire fight and concentrate on defense (Pot Shot), he may pull off an uninspiring decision. The other option is to stop Rocky on cuts.

 

This fight basicaly turns on whether Holmes can keep away from Marciano for 15 rounds.

If he dosnt he is going to get ground down sooner or later. Marciano is just going to keep chiping peices off him untill he crumbles.

In order to beat Marciano you have to either be able to outslug him toe to toe or keep away from him for the duration. Holmes clearly isnt going to beat Marciano in a slugfest so it turns on his mobility.

Taking the above into consideration I think that a Marciano win is the most likley outcome because Holmes is neither crunchy nor chewy.

 

Its well known that Holmes was susceptible to right hands over his low held left ,but he didnt avoid them.Holmes signed to fight Coetzee but the bout fell through,I think he would have jabbed the South African's head off ,before stopping him.Holmes was aging as Page came to the fore as he said himself "Rocky was a young guy fighting old men ,Im an old guy fighting young men".

 

Holmes; UD. Possibly late TKO on cuts.