Larry Holmes vs. Rocky Marciano

The timing of a Tate fight when Big John beat Knotezee and Coetzee and Bobick...there was money in a unification.....Weaver rematch was a Big money fight once Weaver KO'd Tate.....Dokes had a lot of Appeal and that would have been a Big $$ fight for Larry ....Coetzee was white and a good right hand puncher..Exciting fight and Gerrie was much more dangerous than Snipes,Berbick...and good money...Thomas...Big $$$....Page would have been a good $$fight

Weaver
Dokes
Page
Thomas
Coetzee
Tate
Williams
Witherspoon

I dont want to just blame Larry but if Louis,Lewis,Marciano,Ali,Tyson...fought a decade of Boxing and missed co-Champs and # 1 contenders...What would be said

 

This is correct.

 

That Ali was a peanuthead? :yep



How are things by the way, Bummy?

 

This would have been a great one to watch. I think the question is whether Holmes would have had the punch to keep Rocky out all night long. I think the Rock eventually gets in and under Larry's formidable jab and does real damage by the eighth.

 

This is a pickem fight. Holmes had the superior size and speed, but Marciano had the better power and chin. Holmes had that great jab which would work great scoring points but Marcianos rough and tumble style could draw Holmes into a brawl which would favor Rocky.

I pick Holmes here though. Holmes gave a peak Tyson a fairly good match when he was over the hill at 38 years old. Tyson was faster, bigger, stronger, and had better two fisted than Rocky. I use this comparison because when Holmes was hurt, it was still hard for Tyson, who was the greatest finisher of all time except maybe Louis, to finish him off. If Marciano DOES land the Suzie Q down the middle, which he will, Holmes is going down. BUT, and this is the deciding factor, I think Holmes could weather the storm. Holmes wins more rounds due to his jab and wins 8-7 or a close 9-6.

 

Very persuasive!

 

Great Chris, how about yourself..be talking to you soon

 

Thanks, doing fine. A bit busy, but always get some time to sneak in at ESB.

 

Just let me clarify a couple of slightly off topic points here. I'm quick to point out Holmes avoiding the challenges of Page, Thomas and a Witherspoon rematch, say, so for the sake of balance per Holmes i will clarify two points.

Holmes and Tate were well on their way to a unification match that both wanted. It had been built up a bit and was VERY close to fruition when Tate got himself knocked stiff. No duckage.

Holmes was managed by Don King, Dokes by King's stepson Carl King. At the time Dokes challenged Weaver and just prior Holmes was still firing well and would have been the solid favorite over Dokes. He would have beat him IMO for sure. Dokes tired and slowed VERY fast in these days and noway did he have the firepower to get Holmes early. Think about it, where would the King's be left with a near retired Holmes and a beaten Dokes? No amount of money was getting these two fighters together at this time. Whether Holmes would have faced Dokes if the path was clear is up to conjecture, but he certainly didn't avoid Dokes given the facts we have.

 

yea but Dokes was 26-0 and had a title...Bey was 14-0, Smith was 14-1, Marvis was 10-0,Ocasio was 13-0 Leon SPNX 10-2-2,Cobb21-2, williams 16-0,Withersponn 15-0, Evangelista,Zanon, PLEASE..how about Scott Ledoux 26-8-4( who won 1 out of 4 fights to get a shot) Berbick was 18-1-1....Holmes fought a POOR bunch Oh I forgot Leroy Jones...guy could not fight at all...I do think Dokes would have been more of a challenge than any of those at the stage Holmes fouht them, Bey hardly won a fight after Holmes...yea Larry did a lot of hand picking

 

I see your point Bummy, but see mine too > Holmes - Dokes was NEVER going to happen due to management first and foremost. As for Tate, he just couldn't keep his big ass winning.

I will however accept Page, Thomas, Witherspoon II and possibly even Weaver II. Holmes did take on a very dangerous looking and massively hyped Cooney.

 

Dokes had trouble with Holmes jab in sparring I read. I think holmes jab always would have been to much for him.

However experienced skilled fighters with big right hands like thomas and page would have been VERY TOUGH fights for holmes, especially in 83-85

 

I see your point, and I would give Larry the benifit of the doubt but not as many times as he fought guys who were really untested in an untested division.... Tate had his moments but was ruined by a very improved and powerfull Weaver with a last ditch effort...Dont you think that would have been a good time to fight Mike Weaver in a rematch...Larry did not fight the best and yes I guess we could also blame King but Cooney was built up, had a great left hook but was not ready for the Holmes fight and if he had taken the path of percieved least resistance for a title and fought Weaver instead he may have not got past the 5th round...Gerry disappointed vs Spinks and Foreman and did not have much but the hook and that could not keep their agression at bay....Still that fight and the Shavers was Holmes biggest risks...14-1 green James Smith was overated by beating a greener novice Bruno who was extra stiff and stationary for that fight...the scariest thing about Bonecrusher was his nickname...and he was doing fine with Holmes but got scared by the blood in his eye caused by Holmes thumb, the same thumb that blinded a novice Scott Frank, who tried to complain to the ref and the ref stopped it for his efforts. Holmes had a lot of talent but even his biggest fan can not say he proved it by fighting the best ...Marciano,Ali,Louis and Lewis always had rematches to remove the doubt of the 1st fight even an Older Louis did it vs Walcott...and Ali vs Spinks..and Marciano gave Charles a rematch because he deserved one...

 

I never did consider the Thomas right hand to be much to be honest. One brief flirtation with Weaver excepting. Let me promise you - Holmes stamina and durability guaranteed him a whupping of Dokes. The Dokes of Larry's day lost his blazing speed real fast and also tired quickly. Holmes would have taken his time, dragged him deep water and taken solid control after the mid rounds.

 

Truthfully, I think the best rendition of Dokes was the one who fought Evander Holyfield in 1989. Although, some might say that he was 30 years old and slipping, I believe he was in the best shape of his career, having temporarily stopped using drugs, training with a better team, and keeping active. I could almost see Holyfield beating a 1983 Dokes with less difficulty in all honesty. Dokes looked hot in his first fight with Mike Weaver, starting off quickley landing big shots, but that type of energy just didn't last for Dokes. He was very inconsistant and did not always look impressive against even average opposition. I think Page, Thomas, Tate and Coetzee would all have been better fights for Holmes than Dokes would in my opinion.