Larry Holmes VS Sonny Liston

Not that I have any pick myself here . I'd rather not pick , I really don't know. Actually , "prime 4 prime" , I don't even know if Ali would have beaten Liston , but prime Liston was in jail .
Remember Doug Jones & Henry Cooper , they were lesser heavies than Chuvalo (not meaning worse fighters) , and what they did 2 Ali .
Remember what Nick Wells did 2 Holmes twice.
Then remember Johnny Summerlin & Marty Marshall , and maybe Leotis Martin too .
Actually it's hard 4 me 2 imagine Holmes looking so bad vs Jones & Cooper , Holmes was good vs little men , Ali was less than medicore even in this

 

Holmes UD

 

Liston never really overcame adversity and won. These are the facts.

 

Kinda' like Tyson........
:good

No doubt Holmes owned a great chin....... The shots from BOTH "Shavers and Snipes" showed just how solid Holmes' beard was.... Plus, yes, Holmes did rise 2 X from Tyson's wicked power in round 4 later on in '88...... That there proves Holmes could take a shot from hell... The third knockdown from Tyson ended the fight, but Tyson in 1988 was on fire and could KO a rhino with either hand....
admin

SR.BILL:hat

NOTE:

Tyson of the late 80s was sharp as a razor with his combo's...... In 2005, at age 39, Tyson looked fit to fight Kevin McBride, but his skills and overall sharp punching had died and gone to hell.....

 

I think Liston keeps getting better with each passing year. :bart:bart:bart

Liston went 2-2 (2) in HW world title fights. The wins were vs. Patterson (KO1 x2) and the losses were to Ali (LKOby8 and LKOby1).

He didn't do much after Ali except beat Henry Clark (who really wasn't that good but he had a win over a faded Machen prior to his fight with Liston) and Chuck Wepner. He was stopped in 9 by Leotis Martin but Liston got his licks in.

Let's see what he did pre-Patterson.

He was 33-1 (24) when he took on Patterson. His only loss was to Marty Marshall. Liston suffered a broken jaw in this fight. Liston went 2-1 (1) vs. the 180 Lb. Marshall lifetime. Liston had also beat-

Johnny Summerlin x2- Summerlin gave Liston fits but the green Liston got the decisions in both.

Wins over Bert Whitehurst x2, Wayne Bethea, Frankie Daniels, Ernie Cab, Mike DeJohn, an old Nino Valdes, Willi Besmanoff, Howard King x2, Roy Harris, and Albert Westphal don't impress me nearly as much as they do other people. Sure, he beat them all clearly... but that's what a decent HW is supposed to do to those guys.

His wins over Cleveland Williams in 1959, KO and 1960, KO are notable although I do think Williams is a bit overrated. He stopped Zora Folley in 3 which gets overlooked sometimes. He beat Eddie Machen in a good fight.

Liston stood about 6'1" with an 84" reach. He weighed-in between 213-218 Lbs. during his reign as champ. He had a good jab, good power, and good overall skills. He wasn't real quick with his hands and his footwork wasn't great either.

Holmes is about 6'4" with an 82" reach and weighed-in between 209-223 1/2 Lbs during his reign as champ. holmes was a great overall fighter. good skills, great jab, good quickness, good footwork, good power, durable, and was able to deal with adversity quite well. 21-5 (15) in HW world title fights. He beat Shavers x2, Norton, Evangelista, Ocasio, Weaver x2, LeDoux, Ali, Berbick, L. Spinks, Snipes, Cooney, Cobb, Witherspoon, Smith x2, Bey, Williams, Mercer.

As an old fart he gave Holyfield and McCall good fights... I had McCall winning by a point. Many felt he beat Nielsen as well when Holmes was 47. At age 52 he came out of retirement to beat Butterbean.

Anyway, Holmes was better and Holmes would win.

I think it's funny when people have a problem with guys like Holyfield, Bowe, and some others considered among the best HWs ever but they have Liston very high. Holyfield went 5-2 (2) in LINEAL HW world title fights... he went 10-6-2 (4) in HW world title fights overall. He also went 6-0 (5) in CW World title fights. Let's not forget that at age 49 he will be fighting in another Hw World title fight. As for Bowe... well, he went 2-1 vs. Holyfield and is 1 of only 3 LINEAL HW Champs who were never stopped.

 

This.

 

Holmes' pre 1984 leg speed and movement was top-notch...... Dr. Ferdie Pacheco will always hold back Larry Holmes because he had his nose in Ali's jockstrap for 15 years... Okay, yes, we all know Holmes never owned Ali's charisma or character, but as a boxer, Holmes was right up there with the greatest of all-times....

Holmes drives Liston nuts with speed, savvy and a quicker, snappier left jab..... Holmes' right cross also finds the mark on Liston's face time and time again, enroute to a late round TKO or decision win over 15 rds......

HOLMES!

MR.BILL

 

Liston had trouble with boxers and holmes was one of the best. And while holmes didn't have cassious clay movement he moved effectively enough and he had a sturdy chin..

Though Liston was a good, solid boxer, Holmes was comfortably superior in that category. He was faster, more skilled and had the better jab.

He also had that awkward defense that made it difficult for his opponents to reach him consistently. This, combined with the holmes jab and listons only average defense spells a unanimous decision victory

 

I remember that segment of " battle of the legends" in ring magazine around 1990 or so... Pacheco was one of three boxing personalities selected to judge this match up... The other two guys ( who's name I can't remember ) picked Holmes, while Ferdie went with Liston...

I myself still go with Holmes, but it would have taken a career performance for Larry to pull it off...

 

I have to disagree with you here, Pete. He had his nose broken and was getting beaten to the punch and bashed badly by terrific shots from Cleve Williams in their first fight. He sucked it up, walked through it all and knocked the man out.

 

LISTON BY tko

 

Holmes himself gives Liston LOTS of respect when he talks about him...take that for what it is :hey

It's not an easy one to pick though.

 

His whole life was overcoming adversity