Larry Holmes vs Sonny Liston

There's a chance Holmes could get dropped, but he always got up, (except for Tyson).

I see Holmes winning this. I think he'll outbox Liston and control the fight with his jab. I think he had a better, snappier jab than Liston.

 

Always got up against vastly inferior fighters to Liston.

 

Baloney. Liston cleaned out the decision and sought out challenges. Holmes made it is mission to clean up the European heavyweight division and avoided anybody that posed a threat. Norton rematch? Nope. Unify against Tate? Nope. Rematch against Weaver? Nope.
Coetzee? Page? Dokes? Nope. I'm sure he was disappointed Bepi Ros didn't hang around longer for a payday. And the few tough fights he did have were against cherry picked supposed non-threats like Witherspoon and Carl Williams and Weaver (who at the time was so unheralded that the networks passed on the fight).

Liston's fights against Clay/Ali were obvious tank jobs and Liston had the "Boo-Boo Face" about being ordered to roll over and made it oh so obvious in how he chose to do it.

You want to believe Larry is some kind of mythic ATG based on his resume. Have at it. I will respect your opinion and disagree with it fervently. My money is on a brutal Liston KO with Larry doing the drunk dance he did against Tyson.

 

He was supposed to fight Tate until Tate got chopped against Berbick and was on a decline, he was supposed to fight Page until he lost to Witherspoon, and he was supposed to fight Coetzee, but Coetzee wasn't a good seller. On top of that, apartheid was a fervent issue at the time, and Coetzee didn't have an easy time getting or winning fights because of it, even if he openly opposed it. See the robberies against Snipes and Thomas.
If he was gonna rematch Norton, then Kenny would've had to earn one, but after their fight, Norton went downhill before retiring. Kenny loses to Shavers, guess who fights Holmes? Kenny draws with LeDoux, guess who fights Holmes? Kenny loses to Cooney, and guess who fights Holmes? On top of his decline, he fought much less often. It just seemed apparent that Norton was going downhill. Only two in 78 and 79, a SD win in 80 over Tex Cobb in a bad showing for Kenny, and the knockout loss in 81 to Cooney to end his career. Even if we trust the rumor that Holmes didn't want to rematch Norton, which could be backed up by claims that he's made now about him losing to Norton in their one match, he still has no reason to get another title shot.
And yes, the some of the toughest fights of that part of his career were cherry picks gone wrong, because Holmes clearly stated after the Witherspoon fight that he wanted an easy time in what was supposed to be the end of his career. Despite all this, Holmes still won every fight he had up until Spinks, but apparently it's just not good enough because he didn't unify with titlists who passed their belts around like a hacky sack.

 

That is true, but I think I'll still stick with Holmes in this matchup.

 

Which is fair. It’s a very open-ended result.

 

I was watching Holmes-Snipes a few nights ago. They gave Snipes zero chance, and then boom, lightning struck. Holmes was in more trouble against Snipes than he was against Shavers. This reminded me of him saying "Rocky couldn't carry my jock..." and that in his prime, he would have beaten Mike Tyson no problem. I'm not so sure. It's plausible Liston could take him out, but Sonny is a hard guy for me to rate. I'm well aware of who he fought, but at the same time I do not know where or how to rank him. There's too much mystery and uncertainty about him. His time at the top was short. His fights against Ali may not have been on the level, I don't think they were....

 

I have always had my doubts about that first Ali fight, the second one obviously speaks for itself.

Holmes got up & stumbled face-first into the turnbuckle. Snipes was not a particularly big hitter. Anyone can get caught in a given moment, but had that been Liston, the follow up would have taken some surviving.

 

He beat prime Mercer while being past prime and McCall was almost beaten by him while being over 40 years while Liston was going life and death with Wepner and losing against contender who was lhw called Leotis Martin.

 

How many great fighters over 200 lbs Holmes beat and how many Liston beat?
Holmes beat: Shavers twice, Berbick, Ken Norton, Weaver, Leon Spinks, Renaldo Snipes, Cooney, Cobb, Whiterspoon, Bonecrusher Smith, Carl Williams, Mercer, Ribalta, Ferguson...can LHW scared Patterson and no chin Cleveland Williams could match this resume?

 

He was signed for a unification fight w/ Coetzee, & it fell apart just weeks away due to a falling out between the upstart promoter & Caesar's Palace.

https://www.nytimes.com/1984/05/16/sports/holmes-coetzee-fight-is-off.html

There was no "obvious tank" in the 1st fight, Liston was swinging for the fences after Ali.

Holmes entered the Norton fight with a left shoulder injury, but still toughed it out even as the fight turned against him in the middle rounds.

Regardless, the argument that Liston "gave up for his future" is disingenuous given that he just showed up to lose in the rematch.