Larry Holmes was in his prime when Tyson beat him(Read the post first)

I think he defeated some guys who came very close to being elite. Although Ken Norton was past it, he was certainly still in phenomenal shape and coming off the best run of his career, beating some very good fighters, possibly including his rubber match with Ali. Holmes also defeated Earnie Shavers who had compiled 5 strait KO wins since there first match, including a first rounder over Norton and another KO over tough Roy Williams. Cooney in hindsite wasn't ready for Holmes, but he was certainly looking fairly elite going into that match. Weaver might have been a no name, but his career was just taking off in 1979, and would be in my opinion the second best heavyweight in the division over the following 2-3 years. In his comeback, Holmes beat an undefeated Ray Mercer who had brought home the gold, and beat two unbeaten fighters in Morrison (28-0) and Damiani (27-0).

Opinions differ when it comes to the quality of Holmes' opposition, and while I agree, he could have selected some different opponents at various points in his career, I still feel that he had a nice collection of wins over some guys who might have qualified as elite, or at least coming close....

 

Like i said before, he is one of the very best HWs ever, he is an elite fighter, and its not a criticism of him because he was not at fault , but he never beat an elite fighter in his prime

 

I agee with your position that he was great, but I guess where I'm having some differences here, is what you consider to be an elite fighter. If you're suggesting that an elite fighter needs to be on par par with a prime Frazier, or peak Tyson, or unbeaten Foreman, then I can see your point. But, I don't necessarily think that a fighter needs to reach those perameters to be considered elite. Norton was an all time great, and coming off the best run of his career, albeit a tad past his best. Some of the other guys I listed come close too. So what exactly is an elite fighter by your standards?

 

Yea , its probably just a difference in the usage of the word 'elite' between us. I use the term 'ATG' for fighters such as Norton, but 'elite' is a word i reserve for the very best fighters/achievers in a division's history. It was a really, really good/great win, just not over an elite fighter in my opinion.

I think we're more or less on the same page to be honest!

 

Fair enough, but if we're going to set such high standards for what an elite fighter truly is, then I guess its fair to say that Tyson never beat someone of that description either. Spinks, Tucker, Thomas, Berbick and Ruddock were certainly very good opponents, but I can't see them meeting your criteria as elite fighters.

 

I do rate Spinks as an elite fighter personally, only at 175 though!! But yea, Tyson never beat an elite HW either

 

Disagree,

Pinklon Thomas was still an elite fighter at the the Tyson fought him.

Razor Ruddock was an elite fighter, remember he was favored to come on top in a tournament consisting of himself, Evander Holyfield, Riddick Bowe and Lennox Lewis.

Micheal Spinks was an elite fighter at the time he met Tyson. He didnt have much done at HW but after beating Holmes twice and the Cooney fight he was considered a top fighter.

 

Holmes in his prime when he meet Tyson? Not a chance. At least 3 years past his prime, plus mix in a layoff.

Whoever thinks Holmes was in his prime for Tyson is a fool or has an ax to grind.

 

A question to those of you who believe Holmes was in his prime: Do you also believe that Tyson was in his prime when he met Lennox Lewis? He was after all younger in 2002 than Holmes was in 1988 and didn't come immidiately from lay-off.

 

Co-sign this whole post from the top all the way down to holmes jabbing like a machine . . . he was dancing, too.

 

You ****ing lied about what I said and started a thread about it. I never said Holmes was at his peak you ****ing troll piece of ****, point me to where I did. Goddamn you have to be the most mind-numbing person I've ever argued with. You're a fraud and a liar.

 

The best fighters who were as close to their primes as possible who Tyson beat. Thomas, Tucker, and Ruddock. Berbick would probably squeeze himself in there as well.

Holmes was past his prime and Spinks was a light-heavyweight.

 

Spinks was actually the Linear heavyweight champ. Agreed he was blown up, but he did woin the linear title.