Larry Holmes was in his prime when Tyson beat him(Read the post first)

Spinks had quite possibly the best trainer and strategist in history beside him and was unbeaten. If this wasn't enough nobody and nothing was going to be IMO. I don't doubt his potential to rise and possibly defeat any man at 175 in history, but i can name 10 at least he was never going to beat at Heavyweight IMO. Tyson wasn't an overconfident over the hill Holmes, he was a well oiled fighting machine at his (hindsight) peak.

 

Half of the time better than none of the time

 

Well why did you say that he did

Little wonder The Pea is pissed, you're a blatant liar

 

Yeah, no doubt about it. Spinks was the biggest marquee fight of Tyson's career up until the first Holyfield fight, hence your "fanfare" statement. And he was a decent operator at heavyweight, perhaps underrated. I must admit I was impressed with how easily Spinks dealt with Cooney. But fighters like Tucker and Ruddock had the natural weight, power, and were closer to their primes than Spinks. Ring generalship and pure skills, Spinks edges them both slightly at heavyweight.

 

Can't argue much on this one.

 

It was only Douglas who had arguably the best jab in the division at the time that was effective. Holmes was not in his prime though.

 

I don't think Holmes was as far past his prime as many believe when he fought Tyson. He was definitely over-the-hill and past his prime, but how far past it was he?

In the second Spinks fight - in April of 1986 - Holmes showed that he was still a very strong and capable fighter. He looked pretty sharp and solid in that fight. So, from April 1986 until roughly the Summer or Fall of 1987 when the Tyson fight was signed, Holmes was inactive. Holmes was not inactive for two solid years prior to fighting Tyson as many people claim; it was more like 14 or 15 months.

And Holmes himself even said before the Tyson fight that he thought the layoff would benefit him somewhat...It was only after Tyson starched him that Holmes started moaning about how the layoff affected him and was detrimental to his chances; before the fight his tune was totally different.

So, I doubt that Holmes was going to deteriorate THAT much from April of 1986 until January of 1988. He was only inactive for a little over a year before he started training for the Tyson fight.

 

Its alright, im explainin' mysellf a bit poorly i think!! They are top wins at the time, and make for a very very good resume. Its just the usage of the word 'elite', thats all, i personally reserve that term for the very finest fighters/achievers in a division's history.

I understand others use the term in a different context, but in fairness i did explain my own definition if you like of the word before Ironchamp posted his argument disagreeing with my post.

 

I dobut your dobut. :rasta

 

I think he was pretty well shot myself. Going without a single fight in two years, is a long time for a 38 year old going in against a peak champion in his prime. You also don't have to look very far back to see that Holmes was slipping. The Williams, Smith and Witherspoon fights showed telltale signs of deterioration, and keep in mind, this was still a younger and more active fighting Holmes. Larry's best years were arguably between 1978-1982. From 1983-1986, he was heading down hill. By 1988, and after not having fought in two years, he was pretty much a shell of himself. Holmes best fight weight was around 212-217. In fact, the Witherspoon fight of early 1983 would be that last time that he was able to keep his weight under 220. He was about 225 against Tyson which isn't a collosal difference, but you could still see the pouch around his waste. He was out of shape..

His comeback showed that he was still capable of putting on boxing gloves, but we can't get too carried away over it, nor use it to justify that he wasn't shot against Tyson. For one thing, he merged himself back into the game by taking on easy opponents, and mainly sticking to fighters which best suited his style. Even Ray Mercer although a great win, was more handpicked as top raters go, and Holmes even said he wanted to avoid the Ruddock's and the Witherspoons. This is a huge difference from coming out cold after a two year layoff and fighting the very best in the world, not to mention, a deadly puncher which is the worst type of fighter for a veteran on the comeback trail to face right away.

 

I agree, I'll end this right here. Everyone on this forum is against him and he's still deluding himself into thinking he's not fully ******ed, which is obviously ridiculous.

 

Exvcellent stuff!

 

Ah ok, much clearer now. Cheers teeto.