Larry Holmes was the reason Tyson was over-rated

He was the heaviest he'd ever been up to that point. Almost 226 pounds.
I remember here was controversy over the fight being sanctioned since Holmes wasn't even ranked in the top 10 by the organizations, and people thought he'd get hurt badly.

 

Tyson was 'undisputed' heavyweight champion (although Spinks was recognized by RING magazine and others). Tyson held the 3 belts, and had defeated 3 belt-holders, and also made defenses against Thomas and Biggs. 5-0 in world title fights, with 3 KOs.
It's incorrect to say the Holmes fight caused him to be overrated, since he was well established going in.
Besides, the hype train started way before he even beat Berbick, which he did in style to 'justify' the hype.

 

No one is claiming Holmes was "rejuvenated", just that he may have been a bit sharper that you yourself mention.

 

He might have been.
To be fair to Tyson he didn't really give Holmes a chance to show whether he was or not.

 

I'm not bagging Tyson one bit, he was at the peak of his powers. The Holmes from the second Spinks fight would have been carved up as well let alone the one that did show.

 

I just don't think there's enough evidence to say Holmes "was in much better form" for Mercer.
In a way he was, because he was active, I get that.
But the extra 4 years and extra weight is probably enough to cancel out whatever gains we can surmise.

The Holmes that fought Mercer would fare no better against 1988 Tyson, maybe he'd fare even worse. He spent a lot of time on the ropes against Mercer, exactly where Tyson would .... and did ! .... destroy him.

I think Holmes started to decline around 1983.

 

Well lets just say Holmes would have been in better form vs Tyson with 2 tune ups and a bit more time then

1983 was the noticable start of his decline imo as well. It all depends how you want to categorize the Witherspoon fight. Was Timmy simply a level up from recent foes or was Holmes showing age? I believe it was a combination of both. I think Witherspoon would have given him a decent fight at his peak. He had plenty of ingredients to give Larry a tough time.

Witherspoon give Holmes his toughest fight since Norton 5 years earlier. IMO you could go close to mounting a decent argument that Witherspoon was his best opponent post Norton too.

At the end of 84 he was absolutely showing he was past it.

 

I agree.
But I almost kind of ignore Holmes's career after 1985 anyway, when it comes to rating him. The Mercer fight is important only in so far as it helps illustrate how ordinary Mercer was, imo.

I think Witherspoon was very good, and rarely lived up to the promise he showed there.
Holmes had also somehow allowed Lucien Rodriguez to go 12 rounds with him too, in 1983 I think.

Holmes-Weaver in 1979 is interesting battle. Holmes at his absolute peak in the timeline. I know he said he was suffering a bad illness for that bout but I'm not sure. Clearly Weaver was better than his record indicated too, and went on to prove it. Holmes clearly wasn't showing age there, and came through to stop Weaver, it shows what grit Holmes had .... but also shows his vulnerability in his prime perhaps.
I wonder how Witherspoon would have done against that version of Holmes.

 

I've always wondered how long Holmes would have survived against Tyson had he not got his arm caught in the rope when trying to fire back at the end of the round.

Would he have gone super defensive and just tried to survive or would he have tried to give it a proper go, that incident caused him to get knocked out in that round I'm sure.

 

Yeah, it's an interesting thought. If his recuperation powers were anything like they had been a few years earlier he could have got back into the fight. And Tyson might have been tired in the next round.
But he probably didn't have the firepower to keep Tyson off him for long. Even a slightly tired Tyson would get through again soon enough, probably.

Even in his prime I think Holmes would have needed 9 or 10 rounds to take Tyson apart, pretty much how Douglas did it.

 

I'm not saying for one second that he would have turned it around and won but I wonder if he would have made it to the final bell. I still think Tyson would have turned it on and stopped him late but who knows.

 

Tyson weighed 285lbs the day he signed to fight Lennox Lewis. Tyson sat in a sauna for 12 weeks, just so he looked respectable on fight night... That's what i call unprepaired!

 

"Sauna King" Fury has since beaten that record.

 

Yes can't hold anything against him later on for sure. I think the Mercer fight also shows Holmes was a damn good fighter, here he was wayyyyyy over the hill beating a legit top 10 heavyweight. Mercer was 5 in the annual ring ratings in 91 and 8 in 92 even after the Holmes loss.

for sure on both.

I don't place much stock in it either. Larry wasn't one backward in coming forward with excuses after subpar performances, like many.

Yes Mike was a solid Heavyweight. I agree it shows a vulnerability. Getting dropped and badly hurt by Snipes as well. It raises questions about the ability to survive when hurt by much more capable fighters, like say Tyson, Louis, Foreman, Frazier etc.

I'm thinking similar tbh.

 

Then again, arguably the 12-round distance played to Witherspoon's advantage in 1983.
In a 15 rounder Holmes might have pulled away a bit in the last three rounds, based on his greater experience.