Larry Holmes/Wladimir Klitschko eras

Wlad had the tougher era. People laugh at dudes like Sam Peter today but he'd have turned a guy like Snipes inside out. Holmes was (mostly) the King of the Little People. If Wach had been around back then, the other boxers would have hung out in his shade and held parties there. Cooney was about the best big guy around and Wlad wouldn't have needed 13 rounds to get rid of him.

 

It depends what you mean.

I avoid comparing competition from different eras from a fantasy time machine H2H perspective. As BCS alludes to, Wlad's opposition was typically heavier and fought in an era where PEDs were likely both more prevalent and advanced, so that may enter your thinking from a H2H perspective.

From a "greatness" perspective, McGrain did an all time top 100 HWs in 2014. Holmes holds 7 x wins (including over a shot Ali) over fighters on that list and Wlad just 3 (including over a shot Rahman).

Holmes beat 3 HWs ranked higher on that list than Wlad's highest win is ranked.

Tbf, I suspect 1 x additional opponent Wlad beat would be in that top 100 if Matt updated it today, so that would make 7 wins over top 100 HWs for Holmes vs 4 for Wlad, with the top 3 ranked still all being Holmes victims.

Historically Holmes reign ranks higher, though I suspect Wlad's is held in higher esteem now than it was 5-years ago and will be held in higher esteem still in 10-20 years time.

 

Excellent post. Out of curiosity’s sake who is that Wlad opponent who you suspect would now be in the top 100? I assume Fury.

 

No mate. I referred to opponents they'd beaten only.

I suspect Povetkin would be in Matt's top 100 if he updated that list today.

Possibly higher than Byrd, who at 50, is the highest ranked guy Wlad beat, but probably not Witherspoon, who McGrain ranks somewhere in the 30's and is the third highest ranked Holmes victim.

 

Though putrid divisions, there will always be something to say in the name of consistency. It’s not necessarily easy to remain at the top even if your individual opposition isn’t special. That’s the big selling point for both these guys. I’d say Holmes’ competition was a little better on the whole, but Klitschko reigned for a lot longer.

Thus, Klitschko over Holmes on the subject of title reigns. However, if taking their entire careers into account, I’d reverse that ranking.

 

I think the thing that separates them is that Wladimir had 3 glaring losses when he wasn't past his prime.

Ok maybe you can excuse the Purrity loss as Wladimir was a tad green. But the losses to Brewster, Sanders, were when he was an established fighter and the Sanders loss was an annihilation and that was a bad loss.

As for best wins Wladimir has Byrd x2, Haye, Povetkin, Pulev, Chagaev, Peter x2.

Holmes has Shavers x2, Norton, Witherspoon, Berbick, Weaver, Cooney.

I don't think there's a whole lot between them in overall opposition.

But like I said for me I can't overlook Wladimir having 3 stoppage losses in his 20s and that for me is the difference.

 

I think Holmes' era was probably tougher. Had quite a few very talented fighters that held themselves back due to addiction and or lack of dedication.

 

Holmes easily, faced some top boxers. Berbick, Cooney, Bonecrusher and that Bey were big lumps and he handled them so any of this size stuff is just nonsense.

 

Wlad had a better reign, better competition, and was more dominant in his wins

 

Specifically in title reign I’d agree. Holmes probably had the better overall career, though. At least two of Klitschko’s three earlier losses are very damaging.

 

I don't consider losses too much when evaluating a fighter honestly but fair enough if you do but personally I feel his losses where when he was still coming into his own as a fighter.

 

For the first one, sure. A pass is not unreasonable. The next two were very bad - now he made adjustments to prevent it ever happening again, & you could make the case that his prime begins thereafter, as perhaps the very cautious Klitschko doesn’t get clipped as he did in real-time…but I don’t entirely buy that this is the case.

 

Instead of Dr Steelhammer, Wlad should have been nicknamed Dr Sominex. Not because he put opponents to sleep, but because he cured insomnia for a whole generation of fight fans who tried to stay awake through his fights.

He’s P4P among the most boring fighters I’ve ever nodded off while watching.

 

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