Larry Holmes would have been a tough out for any heavyweight

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, May 8, 2019.

  1. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 Officer Full Member

    Sep 14, 2005
    holmes to me had one of those styles that is very hard to expose. Not many heavyweights in history could beat him. He had the height and jab to outbox most boxers, he had the style to defeat the punchers, and he had the toughness, chin, versatility to defeat the super heavyweights

    I think Holmes peak was right around 1980. Yeah he struggled with some guys in the mid 80s, but he was on the wrong side of 30 fighting some really upcoming hungry fighters. The Holmes of 1980 with his full speed takes apart those guys
  2. Smokin Bert

    Smokin Bert Boxing Addict Full Member

    Sep 8, 2013
    Can't argue with any of that.
  3. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

    Jul 15, 2008
    Pretty much dead on ..if he fought today without PED's like Ali he'd be 225 .. not big weight wise but with height, long reaches, skill and speed they'd be fine .. what Holmes had that separated him from many was an incredible heart .. like Ali, like Marciano, like Dempsey or Frazier you'd have to kill him to beat him .. the 11th round uppercut to Weaver, getting up from Shavers .. as an aging fighter the right hand in the 9th that stopped a rampaging Witherspoon in his tracks .. he was full of moxie , that's for sure ..
    Rspen46, juppity, Flash24 and 6 others like this.
  4. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

    May 2, 2019
    Top 7 heavyweight for me.
    Rspen46 likes this.
  5. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

    Mar 3, 2019
    I didn't even think this was up for debate
  6. Grapefruit

    Grapefruit Active Member Full Member

    Dec 19, 2017
    Prime Holmes be a nightmare for any man to fight, some of the best skills, footwork, could take a punch well, fast hands and the best jab in heavyweight history, not to mention that sharp sneaky cross he could crack on a man's chin at just about any point. That was also one hell of a drop kick that he landed on berbick too lol, Holmes had it all.
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  7. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Aug 22, 2004
    True enough; his style was built on caution (movement, jab) and hedging bets. He wasn't going to gamble his title away. He fought within himself and his style and had a keen sense of when to press and when an opponent was still dangerous. That's one of the more valuable traits a fighter can have.
    Rspen46 likes this.
  8. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

    Jan 8, 2017
    Total agreement here !Holmes had it all ,Chin ,jab and heart .Larry on his best day beats almost all ATGS .
    Rspen46 and Rainer like this.
  9. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

    Jul 25, 2015
    Would take a fighter with a great right hand to beat Holmes. He always seemed vulnerable to it IMO.
    Rspen46 likes this.
  10. Seamus

    Seamus Devotee of the Little Red Book Full Member

    Feb 11, 2005
    Thank you, Captain Obvious.
  11. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

    May 2, 2019
    He was blessed with great recuperative powers too.Big cojones!
  12. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Dec 20, 2006
    Don’t tell anyone, but Schmeling has always been my upset special to beat Holmes!

    Having said that Holmes is my #3 ATG HW and 4-5 H2H
  13. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Full Member

    Jun 9, 2007
    Hes always been in my top 3 shifting spots from time to time. Most people who have been around a while here know how highly I think of Holmes.
    The Senator and roughdiamond like this.
  14. Golden_Feather99

    Golden_Feather99 Active Member Full Member

    Apr 23, 2019
    Holmes is #3 for me (behind Ali and Louis obviously). I have seen people say Holmes was a better version of Ali. I don't believe that. I think prime Ali was the best pure boxer in heavyweight history. Holmes is probably #2.

    Holmes is definitely a tough fight for any great heavyweight from any era. His footwork and movement probably give him an edge against super heavyweights like Lennox, Bowe, and Klitschko brothers. Foreman, Tyson, Ali, Frazier, and Lennox would probably be his toughest fights.

    Prime Foreman would cut him off. We know about Holmes durability but we also know of Foreman's power. Holmes had a great jab but Foreman was great at checking the jab. Was Holmes as durable as Ali? Was Holmes as good a counter-puncher as Ali? Just because Ali beat Foreman, it doesn't mean every good boxer could. I think Holmes pulls it off as Foreman gasses but I can also see Foreman stopping Holmes.

    Holmes wasn't in his prime when Tyson beat him. But the way Tyson beat the 38 y/o Holmes is exactly how he'd beat a 30 y/o Holmes (imo). Tyson was good at feinting and drawing the jab. He could cut the ring off and he had the ultimate weapon to beat Holmes- a powerful overhand right. Holmes was much faster and sharper when he was younger but he was always susceptible to the overhand right.

    Frazier had the right style to trouble Holmes. Frazier was a great ring cutter and had great head movement. I think Holmes has an underrated weapon here and that's his rear uppercut. But then there's Frazier's left hook. Frazier's conditioning and body work might get it done. Holmes will slow down but Frazier won't. Things like heart/willpower don't really matter here. Both were resilient champions.

    Lennox Lewis under Steward was a force to be reckoned with. Maybe the most powerful right cross in heavyweight history? An excellent jab but I've seen Manny talk about Lewis' jab and apparently Lewis used to blink every time he threw a jab. That made me think of the times he was outjabbed. Did Mercer/Bruno/Vitali pick up on this? Or did they simply outjab Lewis with superior timing. I know this though. When Lennox and Wladimir were filming their fight in Ocean's 11, Wladimir picked up on the blinking thing and told Steward about it. Steward was amazed that Wlad picked up on something so subtle over a few minutes of play-fighting and he confirmed that it was true. Vitali did outjab Lewis (77-52) over 6 rounds (2 years after Oceans 11). Lewis developed a great jab over time and learned to set up his right hand. A versatile fighter at his best. I don't know how this fight would play out. Lewis had a powerful jab. If the two trade jabs, Lewis does more damage. Holmes had better footwork, defence, and handspeed. Both were excellent ring generals. Lennox was much bigger than Holmes and hit a lot harder. Difficult fight to pick. Speed vs power in a way.

    Lastly, prime Ali beats prime Holmes. Don't ask me how. Ali is the goat.
  15. GoldenHulk

    GoldenHulk Well-Known Member Full Member

    Jan 7, 2007
    Holmes was great no doubt but he NEVER fought any southpaws. I'd love to see him fight Moorer, Byrd and Sanders. Especially Byrd, who would be slapping down Holmes left with his right. You take away Larry's jab and he's in deep $hit.
    kandamrgam likes this.