Larry Holmes's all time placement?

Like I said, Marvis was no bum, just completely beat down by Holmes and Tyson. He beat Tillis, Smith, and Bugner, all good fighters.

 

Yeah, Papa was too anxious to get him title shots. Even with only 21 fights, Marvis looks like he's been beaten down. His left eye is all screwed up, and its obvious his nose has taken some hits.

This content is protected

 

True, but prior to facing Holmes, his only notable wins were against an aging Bugner, and James Broad. A mere 10 fights with only one or two signature wins does not warrant a big payday such as Holmes. Of course Frazier was the fourth fighter that Larry faced in 1983, and appeared to be a non title bout. Therefore, there really shouldn't be much made of that fight.

Frazier's better wins over Tillis, Smith, Brown, Benton and Ribalta didn't come until after the Holmes fight. According to what some say, Marvis was actually a pretty talented boxer, but his father tried to make a puncher out him and basically ruined him.

 

Ive heard the same. Of course, Marvis won't comment on it, or will just flat out deny it, but deep down he knows its true.

 

IMO Marvis would have made a superb cruiserweight. I think he could have fought there. I have a feeling they kept him well fed and bulked trying to compete in papa's division. I think he may have been able to fight at 190 very effectively.

 

Marvis looks much bigger than his father in that pic.??? Weird...

 

Agreed, although I still think that he would have been fairly successful at heavyweight, had he been brought a long a bit more carefully, and been allowed to fight his natural boxers style rather than mistakingly being converted to a puncher. Frazier's wins over Bugner, Broad, Tillis, Ribalta, and Smith showed us that he was well capable of competing at the 200 lb mark.

 

That's quite sad actually. He would've never been an all time great, but it sucks when your ability is limited by someone who will never change his mind, as great as he was.

By the way, i can't see the picture you posted, could you re-post it?

 

Tho he was good at the 200lb mark i really don't think he was gonna scale the full heights. He would have been a damn competitive heavy of top order but never quite there.

 

IMO papa threw him to the wolves. Most fathers would be over cautious but Joe was the other way. He could have had a decent level and length career at heavy guided correctly or IMO a great run at cruiser. Not that papa was going to let him fight at cruiser i bet.

 

Although I really have no basis for making this assumption, I can't help but wonder if Joe's hastyness was driven by greed, in order to make big money off of his son. Losing in one round to both Tyson and Holmes in non-title fights, ensured that Marvis was never going to recieve a genuine shot at the crown. If he had been brought up a bit differently and more cautiously, he might have beaten one of the alpha champions sometime between 1984-1987.

 

A win over an alpha was possible if nurtured correctly. Tho non title beating Holmes would ahve got the glory. Unbelievably quite a few tipped Frazier, and these guys were experts.