Last/oldest version of ali that could beat 1980 Larry holmes

The 1967 pre exile Ali would box circles around 1980 Holmes for a clear UD

The 1971 version that warred with Frazier would be pickem v. 1980 Ali.

1980 Holmes would decision 1974 Ali who beat Foreman.

I think 1980 Holmes would probably beat any version of Ali post Ali/Frazier I

 

73 - 74 version if he gets in good shape and doesn't fool around to much or lay on the ropes. The 75 76 version loses unanimous. The 77 on wards version gets jabbed like nothing else. After the second spinks fight.. Well u no the rest.

 

early 1975, and recognising holmes as a major atg thus yielding him the motivation to get in peak shape, that would be pickem, later than year he had lost too much.

 

I think the version from 71-73 would be the last version of Ali that I would pick with any confidence, to beat the prime Holmes that was around at the beginning of the 80s.

 

From 64-67 it's a pick-em with the slight edge to Ali.

Don't think any version of Ali from the 70s could beat a prime Holmes.

 

I don't think early version of ali could beat holmes, he could dance around the ring all he wants, he would be eating that stiff jab all night, and when he did come in to punch, he would get hammered. I think the ali who would have the best chance at beating holmes would be the 70s ali, but I think Larry beats any version of ali

 

Any version of Ali pre Manilla `75. As long as he was in shape, he was faster than Holmes. Ali probably win by decision. Just a shade quicker both of hand and foot.

 

Prime Holmes has the jab to neutralize Ali's jab just like Norton did. Ali had no body attack, so what does he fall back on. Doubtful Ali's 'mental edge" would work on prime Holmes. I make prime Ali vs prime Holmes a toss-up....which is what Holmes thought all along.

 

Agreed but I will go even further. I can't imagine Ali ever beating a prime Holmes. Not because Holmes was that good. It is more because Ali couldn't handle guys who were decent boxers. That is why he struggled against 180 pound Doug Jones.

Ali really couldn't master any style. Frazier's swarming style was too much for him and if Frazier didn't fight Foreman he would beat Ali each time they fought. Norton did beat Ali each time they fought. If Foreman didn't fight like a moron let his success go to this head he would of beat Ali. This is true of a pre 3 year exile Ali too. If anything they would of beat him easier. He was lighter and kept his hands down way too much. Again Doug Jones a slow 180 pound fighter beat him and got robbed.

Holmes over Ali every day of the week.

 

[QUOTE="DaveKrieg, post: 18477852, member: 116406"It is more because Ali couldn't handle guys who were decent boxers. That is why he struggled against 180 pound Doug Jones."

Yeah; Jones, Norton, Young. Even 36 year old Zora Folley was doing the right things to neutralize Ali until Folley ran out of gas.

 

Agreed but he'd definitely have to be in shape as you point out. Any version post Exile taking Holmes even a little for granted would struggle. Post Manilla Holmes for sure.

 

I agree that up to a point in the 1970s Ali was still faster than the prime 1980 Holmes.

What would be the latest point in the 70s that Ali could still beat the above mentioned incarnation of Holmes ? I see it as being 1974 (Zaire) Muhammad still had just about enough left to beat Larry at his best. Some see FOTC Ali as being the best 70s version of him but I see it as being within the window of 1972-74. It has to be a very unusual case for a fighter who turns pro at 18 - gets banned for 3 1/2 years at 25 and yet is better at age 32 than he was at 29. Well.....Ali,in my mind,has set another remarkable precedent here. In '74 Ali was sharper than he was three years earlier,in better condition and had n't lost any more speed.

Here's a breakdown throughout the seventies on how I'd see Ali doing versus 1980 Holmes -


1970 - Holmes close decision.
1971 - Holmes by even closer decision.
1972 - Ali by close decision.
1973 - Ali by close decision.
1974 - Ali by close decision.
1975 - Holmes by close decision.
1976 - Holmes by wide decision.
1977 - Holmes by even wider decision.
1978 - Holmes by wider decision still. Maybe even a late tko.

From the 1972-74 bracket,this obviously depends on Muhammad being in top shape. Ali of second Norton fight edges Holmes. Ali of first Norton bout gets edged out.

Quite a few point to Holmes beating Ali at ANY point during that decade because of Norton's jab giving Ali problems and seeing it as logical that Holmes' one would be even more problematical. Not necessarily so as Ken allied pressure to his arsenal but Holmes was n't a pressure fighter.

 

Excellent points. Kenny Norton also had an awkward, uncommon defensive style that made it very difficult for Ali to land his jab. Holmes was more conventional and IMO their jabs would probably cancel each out. Ali would land his jab against Larry Holmes plenty.

 

It is very likely that no version of Ali could beat prime Holmes. Let's get passed the hype, exit the matrix and leave the Ali myth behind.