Last/oldest version of ali that could beat 1980 Larry holmes

Is there a lot of footage of them sparring when Larry was one of his main sparring partners during the early/mid 70s?

Also did Holmes ever spar with Frazier as well?

 

I don't see any version of Ali that you could say with certainty could beat Holmes. Holmes may not have been ultimately as "great" as Ali, but he could very well have been Ali's "poison pill"...in that he had the prerequisite skills, speed, jab, meanness, vindictiveness and smarts to get the job done, ...Holmes was a nasty puncher and would be able to sting Ali and Ali, on the other hand, wasn't puncher enough to threaten Holmes in return. It wouldn't come down to the threat of a ko for either man though.Just as Norton and Young were able to figure out the Ali puzzle and argumentably beat him in 3 of their four encounters with him (I believe Ali won the 2nd bout with Norton)...so would Holmes without much difficulty..again, it's those ring smarts.

 

Charisma, color, historical significance, likeability (loveability too) and all that stuff Ali had Larry over a barrel...but in terms of hard, cold fight winning statistics, Holmes seemed to have the keys to the car when it comes to beating Ali.

 

Ali prior to 72 in shape. The foot speed and faster jab being the difference.

 

I saw some footage of Muhammad and Larry sparring on youtube a couple of years back. I think it took place around 1974 while Ali was getting ready for the George Foreman fight.

I read that Larry sparred with Joe that same year in the Frazier gym in Phiily. Jimmy Young too.

 

Charisma, yes, loveabity? More myth. Ali wasn't very loveable as he cruelly humiliated Patterson and Terrell. Nor was he loveable during those years he was a member of a racist cult hate group. Also, his family life, ... well let's not even go there. The world is a stage and we all play our part. The script, however, is often far removed from reality.

 

Ali would shoot the right hand and get countered with 2-3 punch combos, whether they'd all land I don't know. I honestly cant see Ali coming out on top. People rave on about Ali's jab but it wasn't as good as Holmes

 

He was a showman, and a **** behind it all...I watched Parkinsons interview with him the other day, and he just come across as an illiterate racist...

 

I've always loved Ali as a boxer and as a media figure.. But behind the star dusted popularity and eloquent tongue you had a man who had many children with multiple women ( and that doesn't even include the ones we don't know about. ) A man who had affiliations to Elijah Muhammad and Malcolm X who were every bit as racist as David Duke. A man who embraced a religion which oppresses women, rejects all other religions and is against western values. A man who vehemently refused to serve in a war which many of the piers in his age group went off and died in.

 

We must also remember that balanced against the Terrell and Patterson drawn out punishments there was Ali's later compassionate side coming out in bouts such as the second Quarry fight. He also moved on from NOI into orthodox Islam. As for his womanising ? Many champs were guilty of the same - Sugar Ray Robinson and Joe Frazier to name but two. They were sportsmen not auditionees for the next papal vacancy.

 

Muhammad's jab was a little faster than Larry's even up to 1974,inclusive,imo. Holmes' had more power to it,though.

 

True, but try telling all that to the rest of the world...they won't be buying what you're selling...perception is 98% reality to them.