Just before Henry Armstrong successfully defend his world welterweight title by winning an unanimous decision in a 15-round bout with Ceferino Garcia at Madison Square Garden on November 25, 1938, Charley Burley was introduced to the crowd, which gave him a great reception. At the time, Burley was rated as the no. 2 welterweight contender with Ralph Zannelli being rated no. 1. In late 1938, Burley had been fighting as a pro boxer for only two years According to the book, Charley Burley and The Black Murders' Row, by Harry Otty, Phil Goldstein, Burley's manager at the time, approached Eddie Mead, Armstrong's manager, after the bout to talk about a possible title challenge for Burley. Mead reportedly told Goldstein that Armstrong, as a natural lightweight, would probably relinquish the welterweight title. It was felt that Burley as a no. 2 contender would be in a good position to fight for a vacant world welterweight title at the time. As history shows, Armstrong didn't relinquish the title. Burley probably never got into a better position to get a title shot or possible lucrative paydays during the rest of his great career. In fact, future events seemed to conspire against Burley. - Chuck Johnston
Burley is vastly overrated. A relative of Burley's wrote a fictional book on him and now we see comments like that above.
Frankel, taking a neutral position on this I can only comment on Chuck Johnston. Chuck doesn't know me because of the pseudonymn, but I've met him a number of times. And believe me, he knows his stuff.
well i disagree. i disagree because his whole story is based on how Sugar Ray Robinson AVOIDED Burley... Yet nothing of the kind ever happened, Robinson was a welterweight champion when Burley was campaigning as a middleweight. when Robinson fought at middleweight Burley was retired from the sport.
Well, I think you better read Chuck's message again. He didn't even mention Ray Robinson. He clearly states that it was Henry Armstrong.
I wrote posts on this forum defending Sugar Ray Robinson for not fighting Charley Burley. Besides the weight difference issue, Burley wasn't much of a gate attraction during his career. On pure merit, Burley certainly deserved a better break, but it didn't make any financial sense for any of the most popular boxers of the day to fight him. In regards to Henry Armstrong, I am not knocking him for not fighting Burley or for not relinquishing the world welterweight title. When writing about a scenario in which Armstrong relinquished the title with Burley being in line for a shot at the vacant title, I thinking of how Burley could have avoided getting into a rut which he was in during his entire career. - Chuck Johnston
Chuck.. give over mate, you know as well as i know that Burley is vastly overrated in our days compared to his own days in the 30s & 40s. you are trying to insinuate that Henry Armstrong avoided him, which is simply not true. ive read when some claim Burley had to fight heavyweights as no-one else would fight him. Which again is total fabrication. Burley fought J.D. Turner who i can only describe as a Bum who every top 50 rated middleweight would have had little trouble dealing with. Footage is available to watch of Burley fighting and in all honesty he looked "Nothing Special".
You're biased and don't have a clue. Burley would have easily beat Armstrong, easily. Yes Robinson turned down big money to fight Burley as did Lamotta, Robinson was happy to fight MWs not named Burley around this time and Burley would have taken the fight at WW anyway.
Frankel, I never insinuated that Henry Armstrong was trying to avoid Charley Burley. In late 1938, Burley had only recently become a welterweight contender. During the next two years, Burley probably lost some momentum due to some setbacks, including being on the shelf due to hand injuries for five months and some losses in the ring. Armstrong lost the world welterweight title to Fritzie Zivic in 1940. - Chuck Johnston
I don't know if Charley Burley would have beaten Henry Armstrong easily or if Sugar Ray Robinson or Jake LaMotta was offered big money to fight Burley. In regards to the latter, I doubt if there was a promoter who would make a solid offer of a huge guarantee because Burley simply wasn't much of a gate attraction. In fairness, LaMotta fought quite a number of top fighters during the middle and late 1940s, far more than Tony Zale, Rocky Graziano or Marcel Cerdan did at the time. LaMotta also was known for fighting black fighters. - Chuck Johnston
The 1940s may have been the worst period for the best fighters in terms of getting title shots in the welterweight, middleweight and light heavyweight divisions. Part of the reason is that the titles in all three of the mentioned weight classes were frozen during the duration of World War II after the reigning titleholders joined the U.S. Armed Forces. But there were less worthy fighters getting title shots while more worthy ones had to wait a long time or simply didn't get a chance at all. Even popular top fighters such as Sugar Ray Robinson and Jake La Motta had to wait a long time before getting title shots. After being a very dominant fighter since his career began in 1940, Sugar Ray Robinson waited until late 1946 before get his first chance, a bout for the vacant world welterweight titlel. After piling up an impressive record while fighting so many top fighters since the early 1940s, Jake La Motta eventually got his shot in 1949. - Chuck Johnston
