You don't hear a lot about the late 60's Heavyweight contenders. Obviously you had Frazier as champ and Quarry, Chuvalo and Ellis get talked about more than everyone else But you don't hear as much about the contenders behind them. Guys like Leotis Martin, Thad Spencer, Mac Foster, Manuel Ramos, Henry Clark. I've been looking at these guys a lot lately and I don't think they're as bad as they're viewed as. Ramos had a good fight with Frazier even though it was over quickly, and it was a prime Frazier. Clark had no power but nice skills, Liston embarrassed him but that was styles as much as anything imo. Martin obviously has the big KO over Liston and I think he was entering his prime before he was forced to retire. It's fairly hard to get film of these guys, too, ask most fans if they've ever seen these guys fight and they'll say no. The late 60's (Frazier's era) gets unjust criticism in my opinion as a weak era. Any comments?
They were good - not great. What i like about Frazier is how he dominated them. Particularly Quarry and Ellis were just annihilated. Romas, Chuvalo, and Martin were good, but not that special in my opinion. Ellis was a mediocre middleweight before he went to heavyweight, and pretty much cleaned the house until he walked into Frazier. Can't say i'm too impressed by Terrel, but i've only seen him against Ali... heard he looked very good against Foster, though.
Fair post. I'll add though that Terrel-Ali shows more of Ali's greatness than Ernie's shortcomings. Terrel showed some nice skills and has a nice and under rated resume, Ali dominating him showed just HOW good Ali was. Terrel beat Williams, Folley, Machen, Chuvalo, Foster, and Doug Jones, he is a top 50 HW in my opinion and can be argued higher.
I guess the attention this thread has got has proved my point that the late 60's contenders are mostly forgotten
I've always find that group of heavyweights quite fascinating as well. It's true they don't get much attention. I think they were all on the Jimmy Ellis, Quarry, Chuvalo level, but they just didn't get the big fights. Maybe that tournament was bad for them in that sense. The ones that didn't get to the final were mostly forgotten.
I met Terrell during his comeback in 72 while he was training in Minnesota and he gave me a story on his fight with Ali. Earnie said in the first round Ali spun him away from the ref in a clinch and thumbed both of his eyes. For the entire fifteen Earnie said all he could see was a blur in front of him and cover up. Just sour grapes? Maybe but it didn't seem that way to me. Most expected him to at least be competitive with his heavier jab but he didn't attempt much offensive at all. Maybe this is part of why.
The late 60's bunch is a little hard to put a face on. Thad was on his way out, Leotis was at his best but,,,Old Sonny was ahead on the cards when he got nailed. Prior to that you would have to place Liston in that mixture also. Chuvalo would be your lower top ten in almost any generation but never better. Patterson was still right in there and most had him beat WBA champ Ellis (I had it a draw). Manuel Ramos was an interesting fringe tender, but never a world beater. Quarry was at his physical best but just wasn't made with as much steel in him as Frazier. Again Ellis equates close to a past his best Floyd and Jerry wasn't much above this either. I happened to really like watching all of these guys but as a group they seem a full tier down from the great seventies contenders.
Frazier said he had respect for Quarry who came to fight. Also, I remember Terrell saying soon after the Ali fight that he had been thumbed in fight.
quarry had a lot of respect in the fight game. if he'd been a contender 20 or 30 years previously then who knows. there were rumours going round in the early 70's that george foreman was wary of meeting jerry quarry.if its true,its praise indeed
I think that the Terrel fight may well have been Muhammad's peak performance of that era,instead of the Williams fight. Terrel far better than 'The Big Cat' at that point.
Quarry-Foreman really interests me. I feel that Foreman in his first career susceptible to big time punchers, Quarry has under rated power and can take a shot well too. The only thing I don't like about this matchup is Quarry's size, he'd be the much weaker man in there and could be simply run over by Big George.
I've always felt that as well. Plus the Terrell fight lasting longer gave Ali the chance to show more of his stuff.
i don't think quarry would win either but i would give him a good chance against some of the leading heavies from previous eras
