Le Jack Johnson vs Joe Frazier,Marciano, Tyson?

So you don't favor prime Johnson over Corbett or Willard? Good laugh

 

Johnson said you could tie Langford up and nullify his power.Langford isn't winning this at distance and Johnson was very good inside.Anyone carrying Langford's power is always dangerous,right up till the final bell.Moyle says Langford's best weight was 175/180lbs. Johnson reckoned he was in his best shape for Jeffries for which he was 208lbs so Sam would be conceding about 30lbs to Johnson,it's one thing doing that to a Bill Lang,but quite another giving that weight away to a top class operator.
Langford obviously carries the greater power ,but the idea propounded by YKW that Johnson couldn't punch is rather silly.

 

Johnson can't match Tyson or Frazier .I think both stop him or take wide UD, but Rocky? This could be close

 

I don't think that size would be a problem for Sam, he beat bigger fighters than Johnson who were also top level (Wills, McVea, Godfrey). I just think that Johnson had right style to beat him, he was too good inside.

I'd like to see how Langford tried to beat Johnson in their fight and why he finished as a loser. This could help us understand how Johnson fought against skilled punchers. We have a bit of it from Burns fight, but Burns was simply outmatched physically. We don't have his fights against McVea or Martin unfortunately and fights against Flynn, Moran or Willard showed out of shape or past prime Johnson who lost his motivation. Johnson from Jeffries fight was a monster, but I still can't say how good that verison of Jeffries was. He didn't look good and his reflex was gone.

 

Wills was not prime for most of their fights ,[neither was Sam,] both Wills and McVey also beat Langford, and Godfrey was a novice.

 

Did you not read the part that said, others would be close and could go either way?

How many rounds are we talking about here? I'd take Willard in a 45 round match over any version of Jack Johnson. If its 12 rounds or less I'd take Johnson. Fair enough?

Given how a long in the tooth Jack O'Brien out boxed prime Jack Johnson by primary sources, I think Corbett who had faster feet thanJohnson more activity from a distance, in addition to being taller would do the same.

 

Johnson's best wins all came below 200 pounds. We just went over this.

His comment on tying Langford up doesn't mean much. Sam was very young and lighter when they fought. The listed weight for Sam is 156, he says 140! Clay Moyle says Langford was only 20 year old. Which heavyweight did Langford beat prior to facing Johnson?

A prime Sam Langford was a much harder man to tie up. The prime heavyweight Langford is a person Johnson would not fight! In fact Johnson pulled out of a signed contract to fight Langford as champion in 1909. IMO Johnson saved his title by doing so. Langford is more impressive on film, and beat the prime versions of McVey and Jeannette, which is something Johnson didn't do. A fighter doesn't need be above the levels of Choynski, Griffin, or Hart to beat Johnson. Or above the punching level of Gunboat Smith, who knocked Johnson silly in a 4 round exhibition match. A prime heavyweight Langford clearly was above the level of the people who beat or floored Johnson form 1901-1909

 

In deference to the OP and to ensure this doesn't evolve into a hate on Johnson by YKW. I'll say this.
As regards Langford,whilst a challenger to Burns in Sep 1908 Johnson signed a contract with the NSC,win or lose to Burns, to fight Langford after the Burns fight.His purse was a *****rdly £3000,with his expenses to be paid by himself ,but being broke ,and needing funds to follow Burns to Australia,to try and force a match Johnson accepted.
He got $3000 for challenging Burns,with Burns receiving the then record purse of $30,000.
Once Champion Johnson decided his price for defending his new crown was the same as Burns had gotten,ie $30,000.
The NSC , notorious for its poor purses , would not ante up further,so the match in London did not happen.
During his reign Johnson accepted a purse to defend against both Langford and McVey in Australia,but ,when he jumped bail Australian public opinion caused the fights to be aborted.

When Johnson fought Langford neither man weighed in, Johnson's weight was estimated at 187lbs Langford at156lbs,For the sake of argument let us take them at face value,Langford's biographer Clay Moyle believes Sam's best weight was betweeen175lbs and 180lbs,bear in mind he was 5'71/2",almost 5 inches shorter than Johnson.
Johnson said he was in his best condition for the Jeffries fight for which he weighed 208lbs so both were about 20lbs below their optimum weight.
With 65 fights Langford had the greater experience but had not fought many heavyweights.Black Fitzsimmons,George Gunther,and Jeannette twice,Jeannete having fought him in his previous fight.
Prime for prime the weight disparity would always be there , as would the height discrepancy.
Both men improved ,who improved the most?
If it was Langford would it have been enough to cancel out the size advantage ?
Johnson did well with short swarmers,but Langford was a marvel.
Langford gravelled loads of guys,were any as good as Johnson?
You pays your money, and you takes your choice.
Apologies for the diversion,but I wanted to correct a couple of points which I knew to be wrong,and deliberately so. Back to the original question!

Could a turn of the 20th century fighter adapt enough to cope with Frazier, Marciano,or Tyson? As I said I think Marciano would give Johnson more chance ,because he was slower,smaller, and less dynamic into attack
Could Johnson up his work rate enough to be competitive with these three buzz saws?
Could he contain them on the inside,whilst unleashing his uppercut?
It's a very tough ask.imo.

 

Johnson was a very clever fighter and extremely experienced, so he has a good chance of beating all three.

I think he’d have the hardest time with Marciano, who was better at making midfight adjustments in comparison to either Frazier or Tyson. Marcianoin some ways was every bit as dirty of a fighter as Johnson was, so this fight could go either way.

As for Tyson I don’t think it would take long for Johnson to figure out Tyson is very weak on the inside and for him to neutralize most of Tyson’s offense. Tyson was great at one thing, but if you took it away he became very beatable.

Frazier would be on Johnson like a second skin and would trouble Johnson for a couple of rounds, but both Joe Louis and Archie Moore were able to easily see through Frazier’s style when they prepared Foreman, so I have a hard time believing Johnson couldn’t do the same.

Johnson was way dirtier than Ali ever was, so he would definitely start to take full advantage of Frazier standing right in front of him. If Frazier though Ali’s clinching tactics such as gripping behind his neck were bad he wouldn’t want anything to do with Johnson.

 

I'm going to start the official "McVey fan club"

 

Marvin Hart was a beast.

 

I wouldn't favor him over Michael Spinks I'm afraid.

 

I wouldn't favor him over Rocky, Frazier and especially Tyson. A young Tyson sparks him cold.

 

You will be the founder,President ,and only member!