Least number of punches thrown in a title fight

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by RDJ, Dec 18, 2009.


  1. Cobbler

    Cobbler Shoemaker To The Stars Full Member

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    Not at all. I've no interest in watching the thing again myself but I'm sure you can probably just about justify a drawn card depending on what you like. As the scoring in the fight was not your original point in the thread however and no-one had called you on it or asked you to rewatch the fight, I could only really think that you were looking for a new point to argue and would probably end up at a draw.

    If you want actual comments on your scoring, then four drawn rounds is certainly against all current judging convention which is why you would never expect to see an actual card with a score like that. On the other hand I have some sympathy with your view becuase I have long argued that there should be more level rounds scored and that forcing judges to pick a winner in rounds where essentially bugger all has happened leads to widely differing cards and contentious decisions. However, when I'm scoring a fight, I want to be able to compare my card to those of the judges, so I score according to the same conventions as they do. Your card may have interested you as an academic exercise, but you cannot compare it to the cards of the actual judges as you are scoring to a different criteria than they are.
     
  2. RDJ

    RDJ Boxing Junkie banned

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    No one asked me but I decided to on my own account because a lot of people stated that Haye clearly won the majority of the first eleven by landing clean punches, and I never noticed that many clean punches when I saw it first.

    I don't agree with having to give a round to either just for the sake of doing so. It would be strange to be fair for the first round as many judges score the first round as a draw, it being a feeling out round, and do something different for rounds that were exactly the same. I could randomly assign either of them two of the drawn rounds (as nothing happened it's pretty much random), and it would still be a draw. I guess most judges score rounds like that for the (inneffective) aggressor, in which case Haye is ****ed. Something I would not agree with either.
     
  3. Cobbler

    Cobbler Shoemaker To The Stars Full Member

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    That does seem to sometimes happen (the fight between Adamu and Dilks that I mentioned last night being a prime example - the guy who threw more punches won over the guy who landed more in volume and quality).

    in the Valuev/Haye example the judges appear to have given the rounds to the fighter who was landing the most, and best, shots. Which is the correct approach in my opinion.
     
  4. RDJ

    RDJ Boxing Junkie banned

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    And it's wrong, I'm not adapting to wrong scoring just because judges do it.

    That's what I'm doubting. Neither landed much of anything in the rounds I scored a draw :huh
     
  5. Cobbler

    Cobbler Shoemaker To The Stars Full Member

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    Like I said, I have no intention of rewatching the fight so I won't quibble or otherwise with your description of the rounds.

    All I would say is that, of the four rounds you scored even, three of them from your own descriptions seem to have Haye landing more and cleaner shots. The other is somewhat unclear. As I said, judges are encouraged today to identify a winner for each round. If Valuev was essentially landing nothing at all, and Haye was landing little, but more, than the logical thing for them to do would be to give Haye those rounds. If those four level rounds that you scored go to Haye, you get 116-112, which is exactly the score that the American and Italian judges had.

    It's very likely that they saw the fight as you did, but they are scoring according to how they are instructed to score by the governing bodies, and you are scoring to your own criteria.
     
  6. elchivito

    elchivito master betty Full Member

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    yea, you beat me to the punch on that one. how about louis-schmeling? marcion-walcott II?
     
  7. kidgloves

    kidgloves Boxing Addict Full Member

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    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXBB3i_qPpc[/ame]
     
  8. pasky2000

    pasky2000 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Wasn't Rahman vs Barrett one of those unbelievably boring fights with nothing to point out (low output of course) ?
     
  9. RDJ

    RDJ Boxing Junkie banned

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    That makes it pretty easy to say he landed more.

    :huh

    One was two bodyshots vs. one soft head shot, dead even to me to be honest. Three could have gone to Haye, like I typed nothing really landed but a few scraped Valuev's skin. Ten would have gone to Valuev if I had to choose, his was the only clean one, but Haye had two partial ones against it so I chose a draw. Eleven was limp wrist vs. limp wrist, dead even.

    But that's not the case at all, Haye wasn't landing either.

    But I don't think he deserved them at all, if Haye deserves round two, Valuev deserves round ten. It's a bit random though. The other two are completely 100% random as both didn't do ****.

    That I suspect is more accurate.
     
  10. Cobbler

    Cobbler Shoemaker To The Stars Full Member

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    I've kinda lost what you're trying to argue to be honest.

    You started the thread on the premise of how many punches Haye threw, according to the punch stats.

    Those same punch stats show Haye outlanding Valuev by about 50%.

    You've now evolved nine pages later to arguing that Haye didn't land anymore than Valuev and that the fight should have been scored a draw.

    It's all a bit confusing.

    If we've reached the point where you accept that how many punches a fighter throws is essentially an irrelevancy when considering who won the fight, then I'll call it a good job and quit :)
     
  11. RDJ

    RDJ Boxing Junkie banned

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    Yep. After scoring and looking for myself I found the punch stats, and thereby Haye's win, to be very dubious. I did not accept punch output to be irrelevant in any way, I have no idea how you conclude that. It's still a disgrace that he threw so little and ran, and on top of that he didn't actually outland anyone. In total stats maybe thanks to round twelve but scoring is done round by round on the ten points must system. Nothing confusing about it.

    You on the other hand told me I don't know how to score a fight, and when I do, refuse to tell me what punches you did score in the rounds that were close (all of them except 12 actually). You started by saying I reward ineffective aggressiveness, but I have shown you I do no such thing. I just don't reward making someone miss and not making him pay either. There were multiple rounds where Haye's first punch was 1:30 into the round for ****s sake, and a round where he did not land anything at all. Your statement was that Haye clearly outlanded Valuev with clean shots, I'm curious about what rounds you are speaking because the number of clean shots from round one through eleven can be counted on my two hands, and that's for both fighters.
     
  12. kidgloves

    kidgloves Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Give up Cobbler. You've been reasonable upto this point and patient beyond belief but i think you're dealing with a disturbed and confused individual. :nut
     
  13. RDJ

    RDJ Boxing Junkie banned

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    What's that? No argument at all? **** off then, child. No one is forcing you to open this thread.
     
  14. Heavyrighthand

    Heavyrighthand Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Davarryl Williamson vs Chris Byrd was so uneventful that the ref had to tell them to start doing something, cause people had paid to see a fight.
     
  15. RDJ

    RDJ Boxing Junkie banned

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    Good call. Or should I say horrible call, that fight was terrible.