Legacy of Muhammad Ali and Roy Jones

Ali was the one and only Worlds Champion.
Jones was never more than a belt holder...who refused to fight Tiger....
A man full of hot air...Everytime there was a big fight schedualed, Jones would mouth off about going to fight a living body....never did.
Never unified at any wiehgt, at Middle and super middle never fought another Champion in his weight class.
After losing got Montel Griffen, Jones mouths off he was willing to fight the 3 belt and then recognised "undesputed champion" Tiger, for 4 million dollars in GERMANY. Hill had just his best payday and the biggest payday then in Germany of 2 Million.
As soon as Jones got one of the titles unfairly stripped from the Tiger, he had put in his HBO contract that HBO was not allowed to even mention Tiger's name...... two of the three titles he got were not his...
Grochachinne.....know the name...he's the guy who beat Nunn for the Title that Jones gave up because he'd signed to fight a heavier weight fighter for his title, which he never did....so the belt factory invented a brand new term....Interum Champion....inspite of Grochachinne having won the Vacant title inthe ring.....well Grochachinne thought he deserved more than 30% too.....12 million won in court...6 million pay off of $200,000 a year till it's paid up....

picked Ruiz not a real champ...Avoided his manditories Tua and Vittili....running back to Lt. Heavy to fight Tavar because of "Bad Blood." Tavar the man he'd ignored the whole of his life....suddenly because the first thing Tavar said was yep...he'd fight the Tiger.....Tavar was a real champion, even if not the absoute best Champion...a real one.

Jones the man who avoided the best of his time....never unified, never tired.

I belive it was the right shoulder of Liston..in that they showed back inthe Black and White days, an arrow on a later replay of Clay landing a punch to it.... Might even had a photo in Life...but it's been a long time. I was always under the impression it was the right shoulder.

 

Anybody who thinks that the first liston fight was fixed is a idiot. Zero evidence that it was fixed.

 

Off the top of my head. Compare Ali's resume with that of Joe Gans, Sam Langford, Benny Leonard, Harry Greb, Tony Canzoneri, Henry Armstrong, Ray Robinson, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, Kid Gavilan. That's just 10 names, I could give many more.

 

What a joke you are, some of those guys,'note' some have a better resume than ali but none of them are heavyweight and to compare him to great fighters for lighter weights hardly tarnish's the legacy of somone who is a top 3 heavyweight of all time and possibly number one.

 

who's arguing with their resumes and legacy?although i'm sure if i really got down to it i could pick them apart.however by whatever criteria you put on it ali's resume and legacy is exempliary.you can certainly bring up any heavyweight in history and they would still fall short on legacy and opposition in comparison.

 

You did by claiming I don't know what I'm talking about, when I said precisely this statement, which should be accepted as true by consensus of opinions:

 

Ali beat SIX World Heavyweight champions (including Liston, Frazier and Foreman ) and two lightheavyweight champions.

Fron 1964 to 67, he was arguably the greatest exponent of heavyweight boxing ever. From 1970- 1975 he was still the best of his era.

In 1978, at age 36 and suffering from Parkinsons syndrome, he was able to dig deep one last time and recapture his title from a much younger man.

If you want to be taken seriously by onyone on here, you'll have to do better than this.

 

Are you having fun here or are you completeley deluded?

Where are you going to find a consensus of opinion on that statement?

Maybe in the same place where you got consensus on Foreman being undeserving of his title shot against Frazier, and on your opinion that a prime Roy Jones would beat a prime Ali.

The general consensus among boxing fans, writers and commentators would be that all three statements are complete and utter nonesense.

 

You are missing the point. A fighter can take on all that is available to him, but still have a poor level of opposition.

European heavyweights at that time were extremely poor, so having all those titles meant absolutely nothing at world level. Look up some European ratings in the Ring for that time, they are laughable.

Patterson had problems with his back prior to the fight, and whatever Ali wanted to prove by punishing him, doesn't make that win any more credible. Patterson wasn't just shot, he was not ready phisically for the fight.

Great chin doesn't make a fighter good opponent. There have been many tough fighters, who were poor boxers, and a win over which meant little at world level.

Whatever didn't bother Terrell prior to the fight is irrelevant, when he was fighting one-eyed for 14 rounds, and had it at least been his right eye that was damaged, an orthodox stance could deal with that, but when you have your left eye damaged, you stop seeing right hand punches completely.

Williams was on a winning streak against four tomato cans. He was knocked down by Mel Turnbow, that's how bad it had been.

Mac Foster had a carefully padded record for his undefeatedness. He achieved nothing in his career for a win over him to have any significance for Quarry. Quarry fits the definition of journeyman perfectly.

Get your facts correct about Bonavena with your 10-fights w/o a loss claim.

Norton did not face a single fighter rated in Top 10 t the time of the fight, before he met Ali.

However past his prime Ali was, that doesn't cancel out the fact that Frazier was shot, and more so than Ali himself, based on their performances at the time.

Foreman faced two ranked fighter prior to beating Frazier, 2 and 3 years prior to their fight, despite having the record you gave him. Lou Savarese also had a similar record when he met Foreman of the 2nd coming (who didn't beat a single ranked fighter to get a shot at the title or after winning the title).

Ali should have never lost his title to someone as bad as Leon Spinks, in the first place. That wasn't an achievement, that was a disgrace that luckly got corrected.

 

Make a poll of who had stronger/deeper resumes, Ali or the ten fighters who's names I listed. It should be obvious to anyone with even little knowledge of history, that all ten are far ahead of Ali resume-wise.

 

IMO Senya13 overacts a bit, but in general, he´s right. Ali´s resume is overrated, some of his opponents only have a real legacy and are considered as great/ very good because they fought Ali...


PS: That Ali was great is death sure, no doubt about that...

 

Insinuating that I am an Ali "nut-hugger" only further confirms your learning disabilities. I was never a fan of Ali. Not only that, but I believe that the casual boxing fan dreadfully overrates him -he was not the greatest fighter who ever lived -far from it- and is on tape admitting that.

You are a not only a study in logical fallacies, you are also a literalist. Williams was a name fighter. He was a quality fighter -like or not. He was ten times more of a threat to Ali than Paz was to your wet dream.

The fact is, Ali utterly "destroyed" the career of Liston and the first career of Foreman. He made Liston quit in the first fight. And although, I'm the first to bring up the fact that Liston barely trainined, it doesn't remove the fact that Liston lost by TKO. The second fight saw Liston throw it, but it was Ali that was the catalyst for the period put on his career for all intents and purposes. Foreman's aura of invincibility, financed by Frazier and Norton's destruction was shattered after Zaire. His confidence was also shattered and his career path after 1974 shows this....

Get it? If not, ask a friend who at least got his GED to read this and explain it for you.

 

Liston was training like a fiend for the second fight. Dundee stopped by and saw it. Suddenly, Ali pulled out and postponed it. Liston, disgusted, lost his momentum and hit the booze. Then the call came.

This stuff is shadowy but it fits.

By the way, Foreman was clamoring for a rematch -you and Conteh are correct. Ali was -smart- enough not to bite. I always beleived and always will that Ali got lucky in Zaire. The stars smiled on him and Foreman played the dope. Of course, anyone with more than three brain cells must acknowledge that brilliant psyche-job that Ali did on Foreman during the fight. It wouldn't have worked twice.

 

With Ali it´s a bit nerved, some nut huggers totally overact with him, and prosecute a for Ali for free propaganda, and some haters label Ali as a mediocre at the best good fighter. IMO only a few are realistic when it comes to him...

 

Two questions for Senya:

1. I would like to see your argument that Robinson's conquests were more considerable than Ali's. Go for it.

2. Who's resume is better, Ali's or Jones'?