Legend vs legend - Muhammad Ali vs Mike Tyson - When legends collide

Shoving is one thing, excessive holding is another.
Ali held/pushed Frazier's head 130 times during that fight. Foreman never shoved Frazier that much.

 

That's because the match only went two rounds. Foreman shoved him whenever he tried to get inside which negated his entire attack.

 

Have you seen Ali's body between 65 and 68?
The man looked like he was cut from marble.
Plus it was natural, like Holyfield looked at
Cruiser and when he 1st moved to heavy.
Not the bulky steroid look that slowed his
hand speed and endurance.

 

Do muscles really make a difference? Ken Norton was chiseled. George Foreman wasn't.

 

What the F is being argued here? A 22-year old, 210 lbs Ali could control a 220-lbs Liston in the clinches. Two years later he managed it with Chuvalo and Williams without any problems. Is there any reason to believe that Tyson would be more difficult?

Ali's strength was never a problem during his career and he faced some pretty strong dudes.

 

The idea that Holyfield was stronger than Ali is laughable.

Ali faced George Foreman who was built like an Ox. Ali was out-muscling one of the strongest fighters in history. Foreman was physically dominating Holyfield which is the only reason he was still in that fight.

 

Most " fight fans " don't notice this.
Ali was very strong physically ( mentally)
And could control the action when he needed to take a break , and push his opponents off easily.
He did it against many fighters noted for their physical strength. Liston, Williams, Bonavena, Foreman Norton, all were physically imposing and strong heavyweights.
Ali had no problem holding and controlling them when he needed to.
A prime example is the Liston fight when he was blinded by the linemint on his gloves. When Ali wasn't moving he held Liston, and smothered his offense, long enough to regain his sight.

 

Yeah, whether he could lift as much as Holy did in the gym or not (which he in all likelihood couldn't), he was strong enough where it mattered. Why look at muscles instead of what actually happened between the ropes?

 

Foreman said Ali and Holyfield hit about the same. The only difference was Ali was quicker while Hoylfield sat down on his punches more than Ali who was often bouncing.

Douglas has approximately zero KOs other than Tyson against ranked opponents. He was not a power puncher in the slightest sense of the word. Tyson was also rocked hard by Tucker who also isn't exactly a noteworthy power puncher. Tyson could not walk through and ignore the shots of mediocre punchers such as Tillis. Likewise, not one opponent of Ali ever just shrugged off his blows, they always respected his power and the majority of them ended fights with black eyes, bruises, cuts, etc.

The idea Ali's punches wouldn't phase Tyson is an absurd idea whether you think he wins or not.

 

Eh- Ali based on nothing but having a heart big enough for an elephant “he’d find a way”

 

Based on what? You don’t think his chin improved do you?

 

That’s a load no offence. Strength beyond a point doesn’t matter Foreman in the holy fight was just A LOT bigger and shoved him which is illegal strength doesn’t play a huge role in the clinches it’s a non factor here I think you can reasonably argue for both guys being great at clinching through.

 

Your point? You think Holyfield hit significantly harder during the Tyson fight because he gained 5 whopping lbs?