Legend vs legend - Muhammad Ali vs Mike Tyson - When legends collide

?

 

Conveniently forgetting Tyson was heavier as well at 222 lbs, his heaviest yet at that time. 7 lbs heavier than when he became the only man to KO Holmes.

 

What do you need for me to explain to you?

 

Both what Ali and Foreman were doing to Frazier was illegal, the difference is that one was eventually warned on it but it was too late to make a difference in the fight while the other one got away with it the entire time.

Ali has the psychological edge against Tyson so the best but unrealistic way Tyson could win is if he was coming at Ali to kill him like he did with Berbick and Holmes.

 

I often feel this is when you truly find out who knows their boxing... Ali vs Tyson.

You need speed, heart, chin, a good left hand and movement above all else to beat Tyson. Beating 3 atg's in Liston, Frazier and Foreman who were similar to Tyson proves he's more than the man for the job.

 

I agree with what you say and while all three of those fighters were great one of them has a style unlike the other two.

 

Tyson was a mere 3” shorter but look how fast and powerful he punched
He was blindingly fast and the power was without question
Ali hit with an unclenched fist and it was usually accumulation that bear opponents
Tyson was dynamic
Ali was an athletes ahead of his time but not Tyson’s
Tyson was the best at closing the distance, getting an opponent to the ropes and unloading
Ali was built like a springer
Tyson like a powerhouse
Tyson was also 1/2 a stone heavier
Ali would not be able to hold Tyson off off, look what ‘prime’ Tyson did to every small heavyweight in his short 4 year ‘prime’
Greatness does t come into this
86 - 89 version of Tyson jumps on him and overwhelms him,
If they met at any other time Ali wins
Bit unbeaten Tyson doesn’t lose to a 15 stone fleet footed Ali nor a heavier less mobile Ali in his comeback years who would be too stationary a target
It took Ali 15 rounds, and the scorecards were even to Stop Bonavena
Nobody beats evolution man v man
In terms of greatness it’s hard one it’s race though

 

Why do you think strength doesn't play a huge role in clinches?

 

Holyfield fought an additional 20 times after stopping Tyson. He scored 5 stoppages in those 20 fights for an amazing 25% KO ratio.

If bulking up and gaining 5 lbs made Hoylfield hit significantly harder than he did in the early 90's, the results and stats certainly don't seem to show it. Seems more like Tyson fans just trying to play damage control for him getting stopped.

 

t's always interesting how in the mind of his fans Tyson's prime ended the first time he was defeated. When did his prime end? It ended when he lost? Why did he lose? Because he was no longer in his prime. Holy mother of tautologies. And, no Ali wasn't a small heavyweight, compared to Tyson's contemporaries. He was 6 '3'' and 215 pounds . As far as evolution I read Kid Dynamite's biography, all 600 plus pages of it. No talk of advancred training techqniques. Lots of talk about sex and drugs though.

 

Acknowledged puncher, Joe Frazier pounded on Ringo for 15 rds, couldn’t put Oscar down or stop him. Of course fighters will be fatigued by rd 15 BUT, far more than anything else, it was Ali’s single left hook that ended Bonavena’s night for all intents and purposes. Ali also landed a shorter power hook about a sec or two prior to the hook that scored the KD - that punch also shook Oscar.

I suppose, euphemistically, there were a number of Ali’s opponents who became instantly “exhausted” as a result of one or two single shots from Ali. For another example, Ronnie Lyle got tired real quick after Ali landed the big right hand in rd 11.

 

Bonavena might not have been a great boxer but he was a great fighter.

 

Bonavena wasn't stopped due to exhaustion. He had plenty of energy in the final round against Ali and got caught by a sneaky left hook he didn't see coming. His legs became weak and Ali followed up with 2 additional knockdowns which activated the 3 knockdown rule and the ref ended the match.

White Bomber doesn't watch flights.

 

Yeah, all that is very selective. No one is saying that the 222 Tyson against Holy was a completely different animal in terms of strength and power than the one that KO'd Holmes. Same with Ali, where a few extra punds of softness against Frazier in FOTC or against Foreman somehow would make a lot of difference in terms of strength and power but the extra weight 5-10 lbs Frazier put on for his second and third fights with Ali only made him slower.

It's just adapted to support a position that's already decided upon. Either a few extra punds mean crucial added power and strength or a crucial loss in speed and stamina, depending on what you're looking for excuses for.

 

You nailed it.

That Tyson’s prime “ended” as at 1990 v Douglas is a textbook example of circular reasoning. Also, some have Mike’s prime “starting” just 1 or 2 fights AFTER (exactly when Mike “got back” on his KO track) he encountered issues with boxer/mover Tillis.

There can be no admissible hints as to why Douglas beat a viable Tyson, rather, any less than impressive performances or defeats can only default to the conclusion of an impaired or outside of prime Mike.

The defence of Mike gets modified again when one points to some issues encountered v Bruno I. So then Mike’s prime gets cropped again, leaving 1988 as the last year of his prime. Forget that the 1st rd KO of Williams was classic Mike, that fight becomes a necessary sacrifice if one wishes to wind Mike’s prime back further to edit out the less than impressive stuff.