Legend vs legend - Muhammad Ali vs Mike Tyson - When legends collide

Making another guy support your weight is only one of several goals for clinching. How would that benefit a shorter guy who is lighter than their opponent?

You can clinch in order to slow the action down, to set up body shots, manipulate the guard and walk a guy into a punch, initiate an inside fight, amongst other things. If the other guy knows what you're trying to do he will resist and that often leads to a clash of strength combined with leverage.

Holyfield didn't say anything about attempting to tie Foreman up, he was talking about attempting to push him back.

 

That was an answer to what, exactly?

And, no. Just no.

 

I agree on the outcome, except Tyson has a chance to last the distance & lose decisively.
But Ali did not hold that much in the '60's.

 

Yes, he was 215 against Chuvalo without a hint of flab. Compare that to his 215 in FOTC. He clearly looks softer there.

 

I'm more impressed he got down to 212 1/2 for his rematches with Frazier and Norton. Back to the Williams fight he looked absolutely lithe.

 

His body's ability to take a punch did improve, since he got bigger.

 

Yet he didn't take Holyfields and Busters.

 

He was 4 pounds heavier against Foreman than he was at his peak. That 4 pounds ain't doing much.

 

Ali, one of the most unknockoutable heavyweights in history didn't have the chin to withstand Tyson but Tucker, Tillis, Douglas, Bonecrusher and Holyfield did.

 

Then how do you explain him going down so easy against Cooper and standing against Shavers ?
If the bell wouldn't have rung, Cooper would have KO'd him.

 

Ali makes a lot of mistakes and Tyson will capitalize on that.
And Ali was "one of the most unknockoutable heavyweights" as you put it simply cause the big punchers like Liston and Foreman didn't manage to land clean power punches on him.

 

This is Ali at 214,75 in 1966:

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Does anyone seriously mean that he had more muscle mass at 2015 for FOTC or 216,75 for Foreman?

 

How do you explain him taking some flush bombs from Liston next fight with virtually zero reaction?

How do you explain Tyson dropping like a sack of potatoes from one right hand from Greg Page? Getting stunned by a Tony Tucker left hand of all things? These things happen.

Ali wasn't hit much first career but he sipped big punches when he had to. A few pounds sure weren't making a difference. He was quite young when dropped by Cooper, who certainly could punch but he was actually hitting his peak 4 years later.

If you want to pluck the Cooper KD out and thrust it down our throats as the be all and end all of his first career durability you truly have no idea.

 

That old chestnut that Liston and Foreman didn't land clean power punches on him.

You are now officially on my 100% troll list.

 

People act as if Ali needs to stand there getting nailed by flush bombs several times in a row for several rounds to prove his chin could hold up to big punchers. He did dodge and slip several shots, but it's a huge exaggeration to act as if he never got nailed clean even once by either of them.