Lennox Lewis 1997 vs Muhammad Ali 1967

Lewis does have height and leverage on Foreman and especially Liston though to be fair, this makes it quite a bit easier for him to apply his will.

But yeah. Ali was an exceptionally strong fighter.

 

Liston had a great jab but he didn't use it effectively against Ali.

Ken Norton's jab is not as good as Liston's but Ali was clearly troubled by it.
I think a younger Ali beats Norton a bit easier but he still will find problems with his style.

Foreman's power was adequate to flooring Ali and even stopping him. Its his inability to put together the right strategy that lost him the fight.

I mean Frazier floored Ali, doesnt mean that he hits harder than Foreman.

As for the Post, I think Ali by decision.

It has the makings of a close fight but Ali's flickering jab is quick enough to keep Lennox offset. Lennox isn't slow but I think Ali's speed will play a factor in the fight; and when you include his showmanship Ali will win and steal rounds that Lennox may have given a good account of himself.

 

well Lewis is bigger and is taller but those fights still show that Ali can outsmart and hold his own against brutes

 

Amazed at the number picking Ali by stoppage, cant see that myself. I went Ali on points but could see a Lewis ko win as an outside possibility,

 

Plausible argument.

I personally favored Ali but this scenario isn't out of the question.

 

And Lewis didnt have the benefit of having linement on his gloves!

 

Durability? Lennox lost twice in his prime to a single punch, so as you conceded, Ali certainly has an advantage there, and a huge one, not just an edge. That may or may not be a key factor here though. Stamina easily might be. Over 12 rounds, the stipulated distance, Ali could sustain an excellent pace when in prime condition, and Lennox was not noted for his endurance.

As opposed to what? Foreman's tremendous power versus Ali's medium power, or the tremendous power of Shavers versus Ali's further diminished power? Lennox's chin is not just questionable, it's convicted. Ali was able to hurt, or at the least, facially damage every major power puncher he ever fought. (Norton was not considered a truly major hitter, even after breaking Ali's jaw.)

He occupied the aggressor's role against Mac Foster (particularly over the first five rounds), Bugner 2X, Terrell and Blue Lewis, and looked fine. Poor conditioning and preparation are what caused him to look bad against Young, not any inherent awkwardness on the attack. Bugner and Lyle placed him in the position of attacking in 1975, and it blew up in their faces. It can be a recipe for survival (not a guaranteed one though), but not for winning. Bugner was not competitive in Malaysia, while Lyle got stopped as the result of a single right.

Terrell was certainly no ATG, but he did have a superb long jab, and Ali dominated him as easily as he did Liston in Miami when boxing at range. Bugner also had a good, long fast jab, and it only helped him to survive, not win.

Lennox was badly out jabbed by Mercer in 1996, just a few months before the version of him we are to consider for 1967 Ali.

Again, there's nothing in Ali's history to suggest that making him come forward was a prescription for victory when he was in reasonable shape. Blue Lewis, Mac Foster and Bugner 2X tried it and failed miserably.

As happened with the larger and more powerful Foreman in Kinshasa? In Manila, an aging and heavier under trained Ali was forced to fight in close quarters with one of the greatest infighters in heavyweight history, and won by a stoppage

In their first match, Chuvalo hit his body often enough and hard enough that he was peeing blood afterward, something that would happen to him again after Kinshasa and Manila. Shavers subjected him to 15 rounds of hurt, lost, and nearly got taken out at the end. 1997 Lennox was not able to dent McCall's chin.

During his peak years from 1964 to 1967, nobody came remotely close to beating Ali. Lennox got dumped twice by a single punch from two different mediocre contenders, was widely believed to have lost to Mercer while between reigns, was trailing against Bruno when Frank was betrayed by his chin, and failed twice to stop or even decisively beat an aging, ring worn and out sized Holyfield. (In fact, the rematch was closer than their first bout.)

Ali wins a clear UD 12, in a somewhat closer version of his matches against Bugner. Joe was tall, mobile, fast, and well schooled, with decent power, and a much better chin than Lennox. It's a reasonable comparison, the best one from Ali's career. There is, however, nothing between Ali and Bugner to suggest that 1997 Lennox would take the 1967 Ali on scoring or a stoppage.

Over the championship distance, Ali stops him, but this necessarily has to be for 12 rounds, as we never saw Lennox go the championship distance.

 

I dont agree with it.

I just wanted to use logical reasoning to discredit Lewis being the greatest because Foreman said it while he was ringside during his greatest victory.

 

:-(

good post

 

Lewis is NOT stopping Ali. I repeat, NOT stopping Ali. Ali by decision or late stoppage.

 

Ali to win a shutout, maybe even a late ko

 

Dont be so ****ing silly. No one wins a shutout over Lewis in the same way no one wins a shutout over Ali. Bubblecunt.
:jew I know who you work for , you will not steal my money.

 

Yeah, my summation of your post in the quote tells the tale. While you picking Ali is not a crime, a very good case can be made to pick Ali. I have no problem with that. But you underestimate Lennox Lewis too much.

The fact is, Ali never faced anyone with Lewis' combination of size strength and skill. Did Ali face strong powerful opponents. Yes. Did he faces skilled ones. Yes. Did he face anyone with Lewis size AND skill. No. (I'll also concede that Lewis faced no one as good as Ali)

You also underrate Lewis stamina. Lewis was tired in exactly one fight, his last one at nearly 38. How was Ali doing at 38? Oh yeah, he was getting beaten by Berbick. Stamina was never an issue with Lewis. While I agree with you that Ali has better stamina, for he was in the 15 rounders, I don't think it's an issue here in a 12 rounder.

You point to Lewis losses and tough fights ranging through many years, but don't mention Ali's tough fights. Like that time Cooper knocked him out, but Dundee saves him by cutting the gloves. You mention Lewis close fight with Mercer, but don't mention how many thought Ali lost to Norton all three times. Curious no? You conveniently time your Ali between 64-67 as unbeatable. To omit the toughest fight he had as Cassius. I can give you a three year stretch where many can be declared unbeatable.

 

I am a Lewis nuthugger but that one line. Way to far, you cannt hate on Ali.

 

I think that Ali's speed would be the deciding factor here. He would beat Lewis to the punch and steal rounds with late fluries. This would probably result in him taking some sort of decision.

Lewis could win this but it would depend upon him deployng and executing a superior fight plan. Whether or not this happens is always uncertain.