Lennox Lewis : good chin, poor defense ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Unforgiven, Mar 13, 2015.


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  1. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Anyone agree with this basic assessment ?

    I've always thought his chin was pretty decent, solid even, he was only knocked down twice, stopped yes, but he took those punches flush from 235 pound heavyweights. I don't care who you are, you take the full weight of a 235-pound man flush on the chin and you're in trouble. Especially when you don't see the punch coming.

    The problem I see with Lewis, not just in those instances, was a poor defense. He relied on his size and and a bit of grabbing and backpedalling sometimes, but he really wasn't hard to hit. He couldn't slip a jab to save his life. He had power and reach and height and faster feet than most of the plodders he was matched with. But most of the rangier opponents found his pretty easy to hit.

    I'm not sure Emanuel Steward taught him much in the defense department, but Steward was always saying he wanted him to be more like a heavyweight Tommy Hearns .... and I have my doubts that Steward taught Hearns anything defensive either.

    Lewis's chin, actually, was good. Some of those big punchers he faced - and he faced a fair number - connected with some heavy shots to the head and he held up well.
     
    Unforgiven, Mar 13, 2015
    Unforgiven, Mar 13, 2015
    #1
  2. kingfisher3

    kingfisher3 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    both average would be more accurate i think. it depends if you count clinching as defence, i would.
     
    kingfisher3, Mar 13, 2015
    kingfisher3, Mar 13, 2015
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  3. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Being big was his defense. Look at him vs Vitali. Some of the worst defense i ever seen.

    So maybe he did have a rock chin.
     
    dinovelvet, Mar 13, 2015
    dinovelvet, Mar 13, 2015
    #3
  4. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    More a case of sloppy concentration really and not respecting an opponent's power. Each time he went down he committed cardinal sins
     
    PowerPuncher, Mar 13, 2015
    PowerPuncher, Mar 13, 2015
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  5. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

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    This :deal

    Fact is Lewis wasn't the most consistent fighter. He had mental lapses, fights where he under prepared and didn't always show up fully focused even if he was in good condition.

    The McCall and Rahman fights were prime examples, as was the Vitali fight. But the Briggs fight was another, he expected to blow Briggs out and almost paid the price before getting his mind on his job and taking over.

    When he was active he hid a lot of his bad habits well. According to Steward, Lewis was a real party animal, he just knew to keep his head low and his name out of the press unlike some other fighters like Tyson.

    As for his defence, it was good poor early before Steward. Later on with Steward he taught him how to use his height and when Lewis fought tall and could control the range he was hard to get to. Which is why he struggled with guys with good jabs, who could compete at range with him.
     
    Brighton bomber, Mar 13, 2015
    Brighton bomber, Mar 13, 2015
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  6. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think he had decent defense for such a big guy. Better text book defense that both Klits, I'd say. But his main defense, as with all super heavies really, was his reach and the power that made opponents respect that reach. But once that basic perimeter was breached he could be hurt.
     
    Bokaj, Mar 13, 2015
    Bokaj, Mar 13, 2015
    #6
  7. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Very basic concept that many seem to have a hard time grasping.
     
    Bokaj, Mar 13, 2015
    Bokaj, Mar 13, 2015
    #7
  8. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    His chin stood up to some pretty hefty whacks from Ray Mercer.
     
    Stevie G, Mar 13, 2015
    Stevie G, Mar 13, 2015
    #8
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Everyone's got their own theory so here's mine: he was proper up himself. He actually convinced himself of things that weren't true.

    You know all that "pugilist specialist" BS? He believed it. He really thought he didn't have to bother at some key moments because he was so special. Did he not refer to himself, Amir Khan style, in one interview, alongside Muhammad Ali? "Muhammad Ali and me are pugilist specialists"? Or did I dream it?

    It's written all over the Rahman KO. The smirk, the bounce he actually thought his "pugilist specialist" footwork would save him. In fact, he didn't have great footwork. It was functional but he often looked disorganised.

    What I'm basically saying is that if Lewis didn't love himself so much, he would have been up there with Muhammad Ali :lol:
     
    McGrain, Mar 13, 2015
    McGrain, Mar 13, 2015
    #9
  10. kingfisher3

    kingfisher3 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    a lot to agree with there, but i would say that the same self belief that cost him a couple fights was also a positive factor in his overall makeup.
     
    kingfisher3, Mar 13, 2015
    kingfisher3, Mar 13, 2015
    #10
  11. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

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    I'd agree, he was supremely confident even arrogant which is why he was sometimes complacent in his preparation for fights. It's also why he often seemed to raise his game in fights where he was either seen as under threat or had something to prove because that's when he was actually properly focused and prepared.
     
    Brighton bomber, Mar 13, 2015
    Brighton bomber, Mar 13, 2015
    #11
  12. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

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    Pugilist specialist:rofl

    I'd forgotten all about that.
     
    lora, Mar 13, 2015
    lora, Mar 13, 2015
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  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I totally understand what you are saying, and I don't disagree. But i'm not talking about healthy self respect (you are absolutely right, it was a factor in his success). I 'm talking about him actually convincing himself of an idea that wasn't true, that he was something that didn't exist. A sort of mild psychosis, a lesser version of what eventually afflicted Hitler :lol:

    I'm not actually comparing Lewis to Hitler. But yeah, if he was in the bunker he would be rating Steiner a good bet.
     
    McGrain, Mar 13, 2015
    McGrain, Mar 13, 2015
    #13
  14. Peppermint

    Peppermint Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Many guys with a lot of KO loses, are actually tough as nails.
     
    Peppermint, Mar 13, 2015
    Peppermint, Mar 13, 2015
    #14
  15. kingfisher3

    kingfisher3 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    that's a great comparison. Nothing wrong with comparing someone to a specific aspct of hitler.
     
    kingfisher3, Mar 13, 2015
    kingfisher3, Mar 13, 2015
    #15
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