Lennox Lewis, Greatest Heavyweight of all time

Mason never got cut short, as you say but he already had something like 34 stoppages in 37 fights. He was known as a true banger. He stopped about as good competition as Cleveland Williams did.

But again, my point wasn't so much that Mason was the greatest power puncher of all time. It's the depth of the power punchers that Lewis faced. Ruddock, Morrison, Briggs, Grant, Tua, depleted Tyson (could still bang), Vitali, Bruno, Mason, Golota, Rahman, McCall. That's a line-up not many, if any, heavy champs can claim.

 

I would still disagree but I think that's a more reasonable claim.

 

Not in a good way, I don't think. His agility (up there with his best attributes in his younger days) suffered for it.

I don't have a problem with any of that.

 

I covered this a few pages back:

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Lewis' deal with King was signed Thursday morning when King met with Lewis attorney Judd Burstein in New York.
"This may set the record for the sale of ice in the winter," Burstein said, alluding the fact that Lewis intended all along to relinquish the IBF title.

-King wanted the belt because Lewis was going to trash it and King still hoped to pair Byrd or Ruiz against Lewis that summer.

Word is Lewis accepted $1 million from King to give up his International Boxing Federation belt because he wanted no part of Byrd, a slippery southpaw capable of making him look clumsy.

This is business as usual in the not-so-credible fight game. Rather than taking on the mandatory IBF challenge, Lewis will sit ringside Saturday night for the title fight on HBO between Byrd and four-time champion Evander Holyfield. If you believe King, and we’ll leave that to your discretion, the IBF champ gets the winner of John Ruiz-Roy Jones Jr., with the winner of that being sold the promise of a title unification bout against Lewis next summer

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/mike_fish/news/2002/12/10/fish_straight_shooting/


-Of course it didn't pan out that way as Jones upset Ruiz and set on the belt for a year, and Lewis decided Johnson was his man. Byrd was left sitting on his hands for almost an entire year because Jones or Lewis wanted no part of him, eventually fighting his mandatory Oquendo that Fall.

-Timing is way off. Lewis/Vitali was in June of 2003, Byrd/Golota was almost a full year later, Lewis had already announced his retirement by this point officially, the Golota fight had no factor in Lewis dropping the belt in 2002 or facing Vitali. atsch Byrd didn't get the decision either, it was a draw.

Lewis ducked a mandatory defense against Byrd, saying his team felt there was “no public interest" in the fight. Then he tossed out a line about Byrd “offering no competitive challenge to me." That’s fine, except Lewis is next booked against Vitali Klitschko, a 6-foot-8 Ukrainian who was stopped by Byrd for the WBO title two years ago


"Now he’s going to fight somebody that quit on the stool against me. And I am not worthy to fight you? He makes himself look stupid." -Chris Byrd

 

I Haven't read the thread, and I don't really know where to place Lewis other than somewhere in the top 5, but one thing I do know is that he fought a lot of bangers and he pretty much came out on top. That's no easy accomplishment.

 

Word is, there's a man on the moon, but only kids, and idiots believe it.

And only bigger idiots believe a word that comes from Don King's mouth.

 

1. I have no interest in hype, particularly US promoters, and managers hype, and as such I would consider anything said by Rock Newman, and parroted by Riddick Bowe, with the same contempt as bull**** uttered by Don King.

2. If you want to pluck mythical figures from thin air such as the alleged 10 million offer to fight Byrd ( either show a copy of the faxed offer, or admit you have no proof ) then in the interest of balance publish what Lewis ACTUALLY got paid for fighting Rahman 1, and 2, plus what he was ACTUALLY paid to fight Tyson and Vitali.

3. Lewis only fought in the US for the dollars, not through any desire to gain the admiration of the US public.

4. I dont think you have the slightest idea how much disgust Lewis had for King, whom he considered to be a loud mouthed moron who couldn't be trusted further than you could spit. To the point he would rather cut off his own legs than sign any contract that gave King any kind of option on his career. The fact that Lennox was happy to take Kings money TWICE to not fight makes him a shrewd guy as far as I'm concerned.

 

1. You come off as being very Xenophobic. It's the same bull**** uttered by Lewis and his team against Byrd.

2. It's not a mythical figure plucked from thin air. It was reported by the Telegraph UK as I sourced. (some of the drivel you can't be bothered to read.)

Lewis was paid 7 million for Rahman I. Both fighters got 10 million for the rematch. So a Byrd fight would have been on par with those paydays.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/boxing/news/2001/08/07/rahman_lewis_ap/

Clearly Tyson was an unusual huge payday but as I've sourced, he was given special persmission to make that match as long as he agreed to face Byrd next. Lewis broke his word so he could carry the IBF belt into the Tyson match, and yet you make a big deal of King being untrustworthy.


3 and 4. Now speaking of things plucked from thin air, you are doing alot of speaking for a man you likely don't know personally. Can you provide a source that states that Lewis declined to make his mandatory defense against Chris Byrd because of unreasonable contract options?

Lewis ducked a deserving contender, and I have shown through sources that reasonable money and interest were there. You have failed to counter any of my sources, and only exposed yourself as being xenophobic and maybe a bit delusional in how certain you are of Lewis' personal feelings. Certainly hypocritical in that you call Bowe a "gutless coward" but refrain his and Newman's excuses when speaking of Byrd/Lewis. Quit playing favorites, and call both these ducks for what they are.

 

I think for most men, physical prime is the same, or close.

22/23 to 28/29 ish.

If boxers start young (very young) and don't take too much punishment along the way, they have learned their skills and mastered the mental game somewhere towards the end of that range, say 26/27 to 31/32.

So peak prime, the time when a boxers overall package is best, might be expected to be where the 'two primes' overlap, say 26- 29.

There's little reason that the physical part would vary very much.

But the mental and skills component could be advanced ( a born natural) or delayed (a late starter).

I think Bernard is an example where there was little or no overlap between the 'two primes.' He reached his mental and skills prime after the end of his physical prime, at or around 30.

So for BHop, its hard to pin down his peak prime. When did his physical attributes deteriorate to the point where it significantly affected his game ?

By 40 ? Tarver might disagree. By 43 ? Pavlik would dispute that. By 45 ? Pascal might say no.

Hard to say.


With Lennox, there's a similar delay in peak prime, resulting from a late start to the pro game. I would say he's another who had little or no overlap between his physical prime and his skills/mental prime. In his case then, I would say he began his peak prime around the McCall rematch and stayed there till the Rahman rematch. And I think he wasn't far off his absolute best for Tyson or even Klitschko.

For various reasons I rank him 3 or 4 alltime. I don't think anyone other than Louis and Ali have a strong case to be higher.

 

Lewis ducked Byrd.... hahahaha But went on to fight Tyson and Vitali. Bet you're one of those people who say he ducked Ruiz as well, someone who no one and I mean no one wanted him to fight yet he went on to fight a guy that most people were saying was going to beat him in Grant.

No ****er wanted to see those fights, and Lewis wasn't going to deal with Don King unless he had to and it furthered his career like when he took on Holyfield twice. But Ruiz and Byrd, take undefeated Grant, Tyson and Vitali fight over shitty ass Ruiz and Byrd any day of the week.

 

Now if Lewis didn't fight an undefeated Grant and went on to fight someone who had been beat by Tua in 19 seconds, then you'd have a point. If Lewis went on to fight Byrd but didn't fight Tyson, imagine how much **** he would get for that... haha


Lewis was at the stage in his career where he was the recognised champion of the world, he could get some pay back on Don King whilst fighting the biggest fights out there for him.

John fooking Ruiz and Chris Byrd were not considered big fights and no one outside of butt hurt jealous as **** yanks ever mention those fights years later as something to cling on to and put a negative slant on Lewis.

Fact is, no fooker wanted to see those fights, period.

 

-The Duck defenders are a classy bunch.

-No, I don't believe a strong case can be made that he ducked Ruiz. Ruiz was unknown at the time and the man he fought instead was his RING #1.

- He did not duck Byrd to fight Tyson and Vitali. He ducked Byrd to sit ringside and watch Byrd/Holyfield fight for his pawned off title because he really had no better options lined up. If you are so passionate on the subject, please try to keep up with the information being presented.

 

-I'm not sure what Grant has to do with this. This was a good two years before the matter being discussed.

-Lewis/Byrd was supposed to happen winter 2002 after Lewis/Tyson. Again, if you are so passionate on the subject, you could at least try to get the information straight before going on a curse xenophobic laced rant. Tossing around slurs like "F*cking yanks" unprovoked isn't doing you any favors, it makes you look biased and uncredible.

- I have shown otherwise with contemporary articles from that time. Keep it classy.

 

Mostly true.

Lewis did not fight Byrd. He avoided him.

But he certainly did not duck him.