Lennox Lewis, Greatest Heavyweight of all time

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by barneyrub, Mar 3, 2014.


  1. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    This immaturity really doesn't belong in classic. It's shocking what is happening in this place. I will tolerate this stuff in general but classic needs to be preserved. Post reported.
     
  2. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    I agree on all points. It's a real shame we didn't get this match up.
     
  3. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    I think Lewis would have to work very hard to walk down Byrd, harder than he would be comfortable with in 2002.

    And contrary to revisionsim, alot of pepole at the time as we know felt the same way and wanted to see this match.
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Sorry to interrupt, but why does anyone care what the IBF say? Why? Who cares? So Lewis decided not to do what an organisation that gives rankings for money/favours says? Good...who cares?
     
  5. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Because Byrd wasn't just an alpha chump. He was regarded not only by the IBF but by RING as a top contender to Lewis. He earned his spot by beating David Tua, who was good enough for Lewis to defend the belt against just 7 months prior and is a much better recent win than Vitali, Tyson, or Johnson could claim at this time. Byrd presented a unique challenge that Lewis has not faced before as pointed out. Byrd deserved his title shot, the IBF were right in this case.
     
  6. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I agree.

    For the record, I wouldn't have favored Byrd and feel that Lewis would likely still have beaten him. But Lennox was getting increasingly more and more slow as the 2000's progressed. He was showing up heavier and heavier with each fight and appearing less frequently in the ring. Byrd wasn't Muhammad Ali or anything close, but he had boxing skill, quickness, stamina, and a moderately good chin. There is a "chance" he might have outslicked Lewis or at least taken him the distance in a close fight, as we've already agreed on.
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah but...your post is about his reneging on an agreement he made with the IBF. Byrd was never #1 Ring contender to my knowledge.

    Byrd didn't force the issue to the extent that his being #1 was inarguable, or even completely reasonable. He is #3 on the Ring annual list for 2002, which is only 2 spots above Johnson. #3 and #5 are pretty interchangeable in a non-joke reign (I work with the top 1 and the top 5 for appraising reigns). He was #2 for 2003.

    The IBF managed to rate a good fighter in their top slot, but after all horror IBF inflicted on boxing, Lewis telling them to eff off is fine, morally.

    And as Byrd wasn't the #1 contender, it was fine from a sporting point of view, too.
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Remember that these ultimatums to the heavyweight King were underpinned by the company's ability to strip their belt from the Champion, and that stripping that Champion has no real affect on his standing or legacy. And their belt is a piece of dog****. It's a bargaining chip brought into existence by greed. Any recourse to some meaning or some morally binding mechanism by the organisation that assigns to it to the paying customers that use it to gain television slots is a mistake.
     
  9. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Because the post should be viewed in context.

    Byrd became RING #2 after Tyson lost to Lewis. Wlad was RING#1 from 2001-2003 but was never recognized as such by the IBF and WBC, so he was never on Lewis' radar as you know...funny that. Byrd was RING #1 from the time of Sanders/Wlad to Lewis/Vitali.

    Point being, he was still the higest rated willing and available contender from July 2002-July 2003.

    I'm not fine with it morally at all, Byrd desreved his shot.

    I don't agree, again, he was the highest rated available challenger.
     
  10. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Lets cut to it, do you feel Lennox Lewis ducked Chirs Byrd? If not, who do you feel was next in line?

    Wlad is the only fighter with a stronger case but he isn't pushing for a fight with Lewis, while Byrd is.
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    But surely you don't expect champs to always fight "the highest rated available challenger" as ranked by a magazine who is also "willing and availalble" who is also ranked #1 by one of four corrupt ranking organisations? That's a reasonable number of hoops for the boss to jump through.

    Maybe Byrd had the best "overall case" at the time but it definitely wasn't clear. Lewis set out to take on a top 10 ranked contender and then when that fell through he took on Vitali Klitschko, his soon-to-be successor as the best heavyeight on the planet. That's fine. Nothing wrong with that, nothing at all that's a fine schedule. Byrd wasn't some overwhelmingly powerful presence in the division that demanded attention and the IBF posturing was utterly without meaning.

    Finally, if Lewis had ended his career with

    KO4 Rahman
    KO8 Tyson
    UD12 Byrd

    Or

    KO4 Ramhan
    MD12 Byrd
    TKO6 Klitschko

    Instead of how it did, I would have been really, really disappointed.

    And probably, so would you have been.
     
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I would have liked to have seen Lewis fight Byrd, definitely. I would have prefreered to have seen him fight Wladimir Klitschko though. In order I would have wanted him to fight:

    Wladimir Klitschko
    Vitali Klitschko
    Chris Byrd

    I would agree with you that he would have ducked Byrd if he had fought a rematch with Vitali, won, Byrd had won a significant fight in the interim and Lewis had fought again.

    If you want me to "cut to it", I would say the following as a bottom line.

    1 - I would have welcomed Byrd-Lewis.

    2 - Byrd's case was not strong enough that it felt absolutely ordained to me, either at the time or retrospectively.

    3 - There is no fight that actually occurred in Lewis's final three fights where I would chose to substitute Byrd. If Lewis had fought one more fight, I would not have seen Byrd as an acceptable opponent.
     
  13. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    -Absolutely, especially if the alternative is sitting on his ass for a year or doing commentary on the night he was scheduled to meet his leading contender.

    -Really its:

    -KO 8 Tyson
    -inactivity for 11 months
    -TKO 6 Klitschko
     
  14. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    3. That's one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it:

    I would gladly take Lewis/Byrd over Holyfield/Byrd w/special guest Lennox Lewis in December of 2002.
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Sure, but it wasn't a disaster. It wasn't the end of the world. Lewis probably caught some flack, but it wasn't a like his position was hugely undermined by his missing out on Byrd, and certainly after Vitali, nobody cared.

    Byrd's case was just never airtight. It wasn't. He wasn't the #1 contender, he wasn't a part of boxing's consciousness in the way Holyfield or Bowe or Tyson was. Or Bruno over here. He never achieved either of the most persuasive statuses for forcing the fight.

    In the end, if Lewis "ducked" Byrd, he is being held to a very high standard. We often say that Louis was incredible in that he took out every #1 contender he ever had with one exception. Nobody says, "he was not bad, he took out every #1 contender apart from one but missed out on some #2 contenders which is pretty weak."

    I'd describe a champion as ducking when he misses out on a prolonged clear-cut #1 contender (2 defences is a look, more is highly questionable) OR a top 5 contender when a career's best payday is put on the table. Not when he doesn't fight a #2 contender who is keen.