Lennox Lewis, Greatest Heavyweight of all time

Because your agenda's both obvious and laughable to anyone with a clue.

 

Lewis at 36 was superior to Ali of a comparable age. Lewis is still a few years away from one of his greatest victories even, while Ali is a few years away from losing to Berbick.

That said. Leon had great stamina and was able to keep the pressure on Ali for 15 rounds, I'm not sold that Rahman could duplicate the upset over Ali. In contrast, any version of Lewis would probably pull a Coetzee against Spinks.

 

No, I will just not engage in a fruitless discussion. You can argue my points and I'll respond but once you make it clear in your first sentence you don't respect what I have to say..there is simply no point.

 

Very true. Though I think its speculative that Rahman couldn't have upset Ali at that stage, given that I think he was basically finished. Lewis may very well have been better at 35-36 than Ali was, but he was clearly past prime and only 3 fights or so away from the end of his career. Not disputing what you're saying, but I still think some concessions should be made for the Rahman loss. Its not one that hurts his legacy as badly as some others penalize him for.

 

The whole thing is speculative to begin with.

I think Rahman II and Vitali are two of his best peformances and wins. Maybe past the best of his absolute peak abilities but not that far removed from them either. While we know at the same age, Ali was very much removed from his prime self.

No, but it shouldn't be completely dismissed either as some like to do.

 

I would rank Vitali as being among one of his better "wins" but not one of his better "performances". Vitali was beating the **** out of him for the better part of 4 rounds prior to Lewis landing with any regularity. But yes, a very good win. And no, I don't completely dismiss the Rahman loss as being detrimental to his legacy. I just don't think that his entire career should be summed up by his two defeats, as is the case with some posters around here who mention them in the first sentence of their response whenever his name comes up.

 

-I disagree. Lewis was took out of his comfort zone and forced to pressure a durable, bigger, volume puncher with an awkward defense and exceptional ring IQ. Lewis showed toughness, guile, adaptability, and survival skills he never had to display before. I rate it as one of his best performances. It certainly wasn't pretty but that's because Vitali is no Michael Grant or Razor Ruddock nor is he a smaller fighter Lewis can control at range.

-I can agree with that, and I don't like to see it either.

 

I actually feel that for all intent and purposes,Ali was done after Manila...That fight pretty much sucked the life out of the Ali we all knew. The heart and memory of Ali, squeeked him by, Norton, Shavers etc...

 

Very much agree. He was not the same after that war.

 

NO...

he is 'arguable' the best Super-Heavyweight and the distinction between the two divisions HAS to be drawn.

it is No Fault of the fighter(s) in either division S-HW or HW, BUT and it is a big but, boxing at present has no line between them but different animals they are indeed. Normal size HWs traditionally under 6'3" and 225lbs or below, well 4,5, and 6 " in height and 30-60lbs in weight is like saying Lightweights & Middleweights are the same division.

they are not, there is too much disparity for equal playing field comparison. It IS a different division. end of!

 

You know you are on to something here...The heavies of today are massive in comparison to the ones from yesteryear. In comparing some great ones, the reason why I feel Ali,Holmes and Foreman are truly relative is that they were pretty big as well. You could also say that as the heavyweights have gotten bigger, they don`t have the speed of a prime Ali or Holmes . I feel that the speed and athleticism of Ali,Holmes more than make up for the bulk of Lewis Klitchko etc...

 

nowhere near it id rate him between 7- 10th on the all time list .

 

I agree completely. But even at that diminished stage leading up to the Spinks fight, Ali was still battling through 15 round bouts with HOF fighters. From 2001-2003, Lewis traded defeats with Hasim Rahman, fought an equally or more diminished Mike Tyson, and took a hammering from Vitali Klitschko before the cut stoppage. Its fine to surmise that Ali was further deteriorated than Lewis, but I don't think the degree to which he was is as far as people think. Lennox was at the end of his rope.

 

Well, unfortunately, there is no super heavyweight division in boxing (except in the amateurs) so we must err on the side of rolling the big men up with the smallish heavyweights of times bygone, even back in the pioneering days of regulated gloved combat.

Technically it all is one division, and much as it may leave a sour taste in your mouth to have excellent small heavies from early on suffer having their ranking lowered just because of the, if you'll excuse the pun, tall order in beating their gargantuan distant successors head to head based (again, pardon) in large part on size rather than necessarily skill, heart or anything you would typically like to reward - you still kind of have to.

 

IB - totally agree, which is why, when ranking the great HWs I think
a case can be made for assessing this question by both the H2H & P4P criteria.

For example, H2H I give Marciano little chance of defeating Lewis, but P4P I would back Marciano strongly against him...

H2H I think a top form Lewis could quite possibly beat any heavyweight who ever lived.