Lennox Lewis, Greatest Heavyweight of all time

I agree that Mason was not an elite " fighter", but when it comes to just raw "power" he very likely hit as hard as anybody. Lewis should be credited for beating Gary in only his 15th pro fight as well. That was a dangerous match for a prospect and while I haven't seen it, those who have describe it as a war in which both men took a lot of punishment.

 

I don't believe it was a "War". I remember Mason's bad eye closing early and him mostly taking punishment until it was stopped.

 

did you see it? I haven't.

 

I haven't checked in a while but it should still be on youtube in full. Mason landed some solid body blows that hurt Lewis I believe in the early rounds, but he was completely outclassed and the bad eye was a bullseye for Lewis.

I don't doubt Mason hit hard but its difficutl to rate a guy who played second fiddle to Bruno as an "elite" anything.

 

Im watching it now.. Mason was slow

 

I am at work, so I cut off at the fifth round. Action was slow, especially in the beginning. Lewis worked of the left jab a lot and by the third round, Mason's eye was already starting to look ugly. Wasn't dramatic enough to call it a war, but there were brief spurts of action and definitely some hard shots exchanged. Gary was surprisingly slow though, especially for only being around 28 or 29 years of age. He looked like an old man in there. Decent fight, but not a classic.

 

Mason was quite competitive though I'd hardly decscribe it as a war.

 

What do you think of Lennox in is prime as?

 

Honestly, to be most fair you have to break it down into a double-ended scale of gradation and not look to a specific performance or year or even couple of years.

He began to enter his prime around Ruddock/Tucker.

He began to exit his prime around Holyfield I & II.

The absolute peak of his prime occurred somewhere in the intervening several years, the bulk of the mid-late 90's. Opinions will vary as to exactly when, making it a fool's errand to pin down a smack-dab "prime version" of Lennox. Rather, the gradient model above works best, where he wasn't fully prime yet in Ruddock/Tucker but he was getting there and you can say he was "yet to reach his prime" any time before that. Likewise, by the Holy series he was starting to slip from his prime, but perhaps not all the way out yet, and you can say that anything thereafter was a past-prime Lewis. (though he still managed some respectable defenses, obviously, going 6-1 with five stoppages in unified world HW title bouts...but with the exception of Klitschko all of that matchmaking was designed for him to look good with his remaining abilities, most of them being forward-moving willing targets he didn't have to go looking for...)


My opinion probably differs from the majority by a shift of a few years. I think consider his prime to have begun around 95 and begun to end around the Rahman series. So while my interpretation does somewhat damningly place the McCall loss in Lewis' prime (making it harder to write off), I also feel that many of his big victories came while he was in pretty deep post-prime waters, which is highly creditable and probably cancels out the embarrassment of the prime KO loss to McCall.

 

I'll reply to this post because you're following one is mostly drivel using dozens of words where a few would suffice.

1. Bowe certainly had his reason for ducking Lewis. He'd already been stopped by him, albeit in the ama's.

2. If Lennox had wanted to dance to an American tune, he would have signed for an American promoter, and lived there more than he does / did in either the UK or Jamaica. Therefore any poll by ESPN viewers is as important to him as it is to me. Worthless.

3. In 2003 Byrd fought the equally useless Fres Oquendo, then in early 2004 only managed a draw against a guy Lewis had destroyed in a round 6 years earlier. Meanwhile Lewis who by that time was fighting once a year, and was 38, trained in a lackadaisical manner for Kirk Johnson, and ended up in the ring with Vitali.

4. If anything Lewis could have rematched Vitali, but so desperate were Americans to see the title return to the US they started touting Byrd, who couldn't draw flies to ****, and Jones Jr as opponents for Lewis.

Anyone who seriously believes that Jones had any REAL intention of going in with either Lewis or a Klitchko, must still believe in Father Christmas.

Byrd had done nothing to earn a fight with Lennox other than beat a guy that Lennox had beaten twice 3 years earlier despite the best efforts of the American judge in the 1st fight. The same guy Lewis gets abuse for beating because he was old, they claim.

Funny how Byrd beating a 40 year old version is considered a legitimate means of getting a shot at Lewis's title.

 

Lewis was a strange one in his losses. His arrogance was definitely a weakness. When reflecting on Lennox he really was full of himself, as he still is now, not really a humble bone in his body lol. Think that hurt him sometimes when he fought. I'll always be a fan of the guy and I admired how he persevered and came back from his losses. He really did prove a lot in coming back from the McCall loss at which point he was pretty much written off, years of grasping for the championship again and finally getting it. But that arrogance does turn me off sometimes, maybe I seen some recent interviews :tong

I don't see him as the greatest ever, he is up there but he had a few weaknesses. The Mercer fight showed a decent and durable brawler with no fear could give him major trouble, McCall as well to an extent, when Lewis couldn't taken Oliver out with those flush shots in the 2nd fight he looked a worried man for a bit as he was being bulldozed, until his man broke down. I think Lewis was a brave man but he appeared to fight scared or reserved at times, I still see that first Holy fight as a let down, fair enough if Evander was in the fight but he was a sitting duck, Lennox should have made that an empathetic win.

 

I was thinking more physical, yeah.

The other aspects do count for a lot of what made him tick in his latter year successes, though - so probably if you triangulate somewhere in the overlap his physical prime (early-mid to late 90's) and mental maturity (mid-late 90's to early 00's) that is his absolute best, as fully-formed stars-aligned finished article.

 

2000 Lennox was bigger, and maybe a little more technically sound. Even moreso for a huge heavyweight. Some of his best performances came between 1999-2002.

 

You should probably read the "drivel" as you called it, because you don't seem to have any understanding of the subject at hand. Nor did I write said "drivel" as they were articles I linked and posted quotes from.


1. Biggs beat Lewis in the ams, it doesn't mean ****. The official reasons from Newman and Bowe:

Newman said Lewis had been offered two chances to fight Bowe for the title: a guaranteed $3 million with a possible payoff of $15 million more for a first defense if he beat Bowe, or $3 million to fight an opponent of his choosing plus $9 million and a share of the promotion for a followup fight with Bowe.

"It has been a sincere effort on our part," Newman said at the news conference. "It has been Lewis who has waited on the deplorable actions of the W.B.C. As long as Riddick is champion, he will never fight for, or recognize, that belt." Sulaiman Still Hoping

The W.B.C. is wrong, and I will not be intimidated by them," Bowe said. "I am the heavyweight champion of the world, and today I withdraw my recognition of the W.B.C. For as long as I am champion, I will not recognize or defend this dishonest belt."

I don't think Lennox Lewis is chicken," Newman said. "But he is a legend in his own mind. He's a household name in his own house. He brings very little to the table. If people in the States were asked who Lennox Lewis was, they probably would say that he's the boxing promoter who doesn't wear a shirt, confusing him with Butch Lewis."


2. Given Lewis fought in America for about 15 of his 18 title fights, I think it matters more than you are willing to admit. A poll of 30,000 certainly holds more weight than a shallow unproven claim.

3. Oquendo/Byrd was in Sept of 2003, several months after Lewis had already had his last fight. It is irrelevant to Lewis dumping the title 12 months prior.

4. This is all well before the Vitali fight, I don't think you understand how or when Byrd became Lewis' mandatory. Some amusing irony as your trash talking of Byrd sounds exactly like Newman describing Lewis. Nevermind its done been stated in the articles that Byrd would have been a better than average payday of roughly 10 million US.

5. Actualy wrong. Byrd beat David Tua to become IBF #1 in 2001. It is a valid win over a valid contender who was good enough for Lewis just 8 months prior. Byrd earned his spot, that can't be disputed. He was as deserving if not moreso than anyone else who challenged Lewis for the belt in the 00s.