Lennox Lewis is overrated

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Zakman, Jun 17, 2007.


  1. thesandman

    thesandman Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think you'll find Hopkins was the first to unify the WBO, when he fought Oscar. I can stand to be corrected, but that's my understanding. That happened well AFTER Waldo was hammered by Sanders.

    Are you seriously putting forward the argument that Byrd and Ruiz were ducked by Lewis because of their styles? Seriously?

    If not, who are you talking about then?

    Waldo was seen as a prospect - yes rated by the Ring - and if he'd got past Sanders, they may have fought. (Remember, they were in Oceans 11, talk was being made about them fighting).

    But he didn't. And Waldos loss to Sanders, coupled with the way he lost to Purrity, really put a stain on his career for a couple of years.
     
  2. Dekkers

    Dekkers Team Bergeron Full Member

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    Sounds like you've been entertaining the thought Zakman :yep
     
  3. thesandman

    thesandman Boxing Addict Full Member

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    NOTE: I apologise, Hopkins was the first guy to hold all 4 including the WBO. My mistake.
     
  4. Zakman

    Zakman ESB's Chinchecker Full Member

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    Well considering that Holyfield was never a big hitter at HW, and Tyson had about a round's worth of stamina to get the job done, it's really not surprising. In their primes, it would have been a different story.:yep
     
  5. 2smart4u

    2smart4u Well-Known Member Full Member

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    :good Well I quess I totally disagree with you !:bbb Cheers ! PS since your a big fan of BAER you may be a perpetual joker like he was !
     
  6. Lance_Uppercut

    Lance_Uppercut ESKIMO Full Member

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    "IF" factors are meaningless and baseless you do realize. A thimble carries more water then most "if" scenarios by fans.
     
  7. Zakman

    Zakman ESB's Chinchecker Full Member

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    I do ham it up a bit and try to have fun with all this, but trust me, on this one, the basic point I do believe in. I'm not alone either - just one of the more vocal! :D
     
  8. thesandman

    thesandman Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ask him when Holyfields prime was. That should be good for a few more pages.
     
  9. SweetScienceFan

    SweetScienceFan Member Full Member

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    Oceans 11 was being filmed in the year 2000. W. K. was beat by Sanders 3 years later. That is my point and you just pointed it out again. How many years does it take for Lennox Lewis to put together the biggest fights that the fans want to see? In reality, the fight could have been made at any time, but Lewis wouldn't even answer questions regarding it. He was even embarrassed by Larry Merchant on national television about the issue, and Lennox refused to give an answer on when he would fight W. Klitschko. Wlad was seen as a prospect? He was the #1 contender by Ring Magazine and the WBO Champion. He was considered the future of the division. He was not considered a prospect since he demolished Barrett and Byrd back to back and won the WBO title.

    On the WBO unification issue, I already pointed out to you that Acelino Freitas was the WBO/WBA unifed Champ back in 2002. Even before that Dariusz Michalczewski unifed the WBA, IBF, and WBO way back in 1997. Although he was screwed out of the other two titles shortly after due to unreasonable manditory requirements layed upon him by the IBF and WBA. So, once again that point is moot.
     
  10. thesandman

    thesandman Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Just look at the guys Wald was fighting in 2000. With the exception of Byrd (who was never, ever going to beat him), they were B level fighters at best.

    He didn't "step up" in competition till about 2 years later, fighting a very old Mercer, and Jameel McCline.

    That's not competition that's banging on peoples door to make them fight you. At that point in time, Waldo hadn't even fought guys as good as Micheal Grant had when he fought Lewis.

    I'm sorry, you can rewrite history, but that's not the way it is. Lewis also got sparked v Rahman (because of Oceans 11 remember) - and had to then rematch Rahman to get his belts back, so he couldn't fight Waldo then.

    Then, a Tyson match that he had to make for both the money, and then because it was Tyson. They were the same age.

    Then not long after, Sanders sparkoed Waldo.


    Also, I admitted my error regarding the WBO a few posts up.
     
  11. Zakman

    Zakman ESB's Chinchecker Full Member

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    :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

    Why don't we debate Lewis' prime while we're at it!!:lol:
     
  12. thesandman

    thesandman Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Careful Zak, we don't want to crash the server again already..... :D
     
  13. Lance_Uppercut

    Lance_Uppercut ESKIMO Full Member

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    How dp you define PRIME Zak.:huh

    Best version? Age Range? Win/loss streak?
     
  14. Zakman

    Zakman ESB's Chinchecker Full Member

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    Age ranges are not really a very good guide as different fighters have primes at different ages. Best version is better, but perhaps a bit limiting, because fighters may still be damn good even if they are not at their absolute best. Win/loss streaks are also not that good a guide because fighters may lose fights while still in their "prime."

    Like many judgements in boxing, it's subjective, but I would say that the best definition of prime refers to when a fighter is generally at the peak of their athletic skills when looked at over the course of their career. That is, they are neither on the way up, or on the way down - they are competing at the top of their athletic abilities.

    Now, regarding Holyfield, I give him perhaps a somewhat longer prime that many, beginning in the late 80s and extending probably up until the time he faced Tyson for the first time. Many suggest he was already past his best, but I do think his performance in that fight suggests otherwise. You could perhaps extend it as far as the second Moorer fight, but I think that's probably stretching it.

    Lewis's prime is also quite long, extending probably from about the mid 90s through the early 2000s, roughly from the time he fought Bruno until the second Rahman fight.

    One thing about the greats, I think, that distinguishes them is that they tend to have longer primes. One of Bowe's problems - due largely I think to poor training habits - is that he had so short a "prime." If he could have sustained it - and I know I'll take **** for this - I think he would have been better than BOTH Holyfield and Lewis.
     
  15. Shotgun

    Shotgun Well-Known Member Full Member

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    [yt]cuOzydfpv28[/yt]

    Lewis showing off an element he had that Holyfield never did, exactly why Moorer would never make it 12 rounds with Lewis, and why Bowe refused to fight him :yep