Lennox Lewis - Phil Jackson

yeah he just used his attributes. long arms, size wieght and a very good right hand

 

Apart from an early flash knockdown, the first 4-5 rounds of Lewis-Jackson are pretty dull. Lewis is in full-on Correa era tentative jab mode and just looking for the right, while Jackson is trying with his left but being cautious too.

Last 3 rounds though, Lewis just beats the **** out of Jackson. I'm talking Lewis-Briggs levels here, seriously. It actually ended up being one of Lewis's busiest fights because of the volume of punches he threw (and landed) over the last 3 rounds.

Jackson showed the kind of courage under heavy fire in this fight that he didn't do against Ruddock, that's for certain. But while Jackson was a good hitter with a nice left, he didn't have much else going for him and didn't win a round.

 

You are an incurable idiot, or a troll. There are fighters I don't particularly care for but I can recognise and honestly appraise them. You may not Lennox Lewis but there were many fights that he was involved in that were exciting, or do you not count the knockouts/stoppages of Ruddock, Golota, Briggs, Bruno, Klitshcko et al as exciting fights?

 

lewis looked horrid..........awful.......jeremy williams kod williams in 1 rd.....razor ruddock did it in 4......lennox in 9....foreman even said lewis looked horrid

 

Uninspiring or not, Tucker hardly won a round, Biggs was knocked out in 3 (how long did Tyson need?), Bruno was stopped in 7 and Billups didn't win a round nor did Jackson. Couple that with the Ruddock blowout and Mason fight and i think you have a pretty solid resume on your hands.

 

Excuse my bluntness Chris but,

first of all, comparing Lewis's wins over Biggs and Tucker to Tyson's performances against them is ludicrous and I'm not even going to get into why. Bruno was well past his best, and gave Lewis far more trouble than he did against Tyson both times!! I remember the Levi Billups fight, and felt that it was the biggest snooze fest I ever saw. It was on the undercard of an HBO fight, and Billups's only marketing ploy was that he had recently decisioned an ancient Boncrusher Smith. Let's also not forget his questionable win over a 35 year old Ray Mercer who hadn't won a fight in over 2 years, and was either losing, drawing, or barely beating mediocrities.

Don't blame me for these harsh criticisms. This is typically the same fashion in which YOU YOURSELF commonly critique fighters whom you don't exactly favour.

Although I respect Lewis, I have to agree with Sonny's jab, in that most of his performances pre 1997 were indeed uninspiring. His wins over Ruddock (92), Mason (91), and Morrison (95) were undeniably impressive though

 

Technically, no-one dominated the 90s...just bunches of domination.

No-one was The Boss from '90 - '99.
It's just Holyfield and Lewis that, overall, did the best.

No single person dominated the 80s either, it was Holmes and Tyson in turn...

 

Where did i compare Tucker's performance against Tyson with Lewis'? Read again.

As for Biggs, maybe he declined since Tyson, or maybe he just never was that much? He was already very much questioned going into the Tyson fight, and afterwards he was stopped by Mason, Damiani, Bowe and Lewis, and Lewis did it faster than any of those, the fights occured in a few years time.

I don't think this is a significant win for Lewis, but to say (not saying you did) this was a bad or questionable performance, despite a 3 round TKO win and faster than anyone including Tyson and Bowe is pretty pathetic, in my opinion. That's why i responded.

True, but that's styles for you. Foreman destroyed Frazier with ease, but Frazier gave Ali more trouble than Foreman ever did!!


And what is your evidence for Bruno being past his best?
Many people thought the Lewis fight was Bruno's best performance up to that point, and most importantly, his best win (McCall, title) was yet to come. I would say his prime is defined by winning a world title and troubling Lewis, rather than getting knocked out by Smith and Witherspoon.

Snooze fest or not, it was a landslide win. Not a significant victory considering Billup's credentials, but a landslide win nonetheless. Do you give Ali less credit for beating Lyle or one of his other snoozefests because it was a boring fight? Or any of Hopkins' victories?

True, although it should be noted that Mercer gave Holyfield hell too, especially during the first 6 rounds. In the end, Lewis still won and did it fighting a fight that most of his detractors think he can't fight, taking punches and stuff.

And that's fine, everyone has his own opinion.

 

Lewis was extra cautious in this fight. There wasn't much action until the last three rounds. Jackson respected Lewis too much to win; all Jackson did was hang in there. Jackson was content doing virtually nothing for most of the fight. His punch output was low.

While Lewis closed the show, he waited a bit to long to get going from a fans perspective. I suppose this was Lewis style. If he Lewis had a guy playing it safe, he’d play it safe too and simply win rounds until the moment was right to up his ante. If Lewis had an attacking type of opponent, or had something to prove, he was aggressive.

 

I did, and here is what you said:

Gee maybe my imagination is getting the better of me, but it certainly appeared as though you were making a comparison there.

Here is the key difference, although you'll probably disregard it, Biggs was an undefeated prospect who had recently won the gold medal, and was coming off a string of decent wins when he fought Tyson. Against Lewis, he was an aging veteran who was on the comeback trail, hadn't beaten a ranked fighter in years, and had suffered 4 KO losses, not to mention had long ago been dumped by Lou Duva. Saying that Lewis Ko'd Biggs faster than Damiani, Mason, Tyson, and Bowe means virtually nothing in the scheme of things. In fact, Lewis fought Biggs at his best in the 1984 olympics and lost!!

It was an OK win considering the stage of his career that Lewis was in, but to try and sugar coat it by pointing out that he beat him faster than other men who fought him earlier is irrelevant.

Fair enough, but Ali, Frazier, and Foreman were at or near best when they went back and forth fighting each other. Under such circumstances, it is far more reasonable to use styles as an explanation for how certain fighters did against one another. In the case of one fighter beating an opponent who is past his prime and having more difficulty in doing it than another fighter who beat him closer to his best, such an analysis does not always work.

The man had undergone two extended periods of inactivity in his career, and was now 32 years of age, plus had been KO'd badly on 3 previous occasions. He had only fought 4 times in the previous 3 years, and had only beaten mainly shot fighters such as Ribalta, Williams, and Coetzer who was likely still recovering from the Bowe beating. Bruno was not in his prime when he fought Lewis no matter how you try to package it.

Not really. If you're using the McCall win to justify him being at his best, then it really doesn't hold much water. Shortly after the McCall fight Bruno was dusted in 3 rounds by Tyson which was quicker than the first match, and this was not a peak Tyson either.

Winning a world title against an average fighter, and giving another good fighter trouble does not constitute being in one's perspective prime. Foreman did all of these things at a much older age than bruno, and it did not mean that he was at his best. Plus, you had a lot of men winning alpha titles in the 90's. Even Bruce Seldon won a belt for Christ's sake.

I thought it was one of the shitiest fights I ever saw, regardless of the wide margin in which Lewis won it. I also remember Michael Moorer who had just ascended from lightheavyweight destroying Billups in just 3 rounds, less than a year earlier. Calling this a landside win doesn't say much in my opinion.

No offense, but this comparison sucks. Are you really going to compare Ali's performance with a quality contender like Ron Lyle to Lewis's outing against Levi Billups?????

Oh brother atsch

Holyfield was coming off a 13 month layoff and returning after recovering from some diagnosed health problems and a loss, yet he managed to floor Mercer-something that Lewis couldn't do. His win was also more decisive than Lewis's was. 12 months of inactivity later, Mercer fought Lewis and gave him a better fight than he gave Holyfield.

Not everyone feels this way. After watching that fight live, I felt the bout could have easily been ruled a draw, which is actually generous considering that many felt Lewis had lost.

 

That is what i said indeed. So again i ask: where did i compare Lewis' performance against Tucker with Tyson's against Tucker ?

Yep, with Biggs, but not with Tucker as you claimed.

Yes, but when he was undefeated coming into the Tyson fight, he already had shaky performances against inferior opposition. I suggest, if you have it, you watch the pre-fight introduction during Tyson-Biggs. Biggs, despite being undefeated and no one knowing how he'd lose everytime when stepping up, was already shown as having little chance, and the best thing to conclude was that he had a lot of heart by coming back to beat a journeyman who had him in trouble.

Although it's not such a big point, fact remains that Lewis stopped him faster than Bowe, Mason, Tyson and others did. Biggs had lost some confidence since the Tyson fight, but you can't tell me he was still that same fighter when he fought Bowe!

Mind you, Bowe fought him a mere 8 months before Lewis, and needed 8 rounds.

Yep, it's just that: an OK win. I'm not trying to sugarcoat anything.

The reason i brought it up was because of these statements:

My point was (is) that considering he stopped him faster than Tyson and Bowe (8 months earlier), i hardly think this is a knock on Lewis' record.

Frazier was far away from at his best when he fought Foreman, and hardly as good as he used to be when Ali beat him.

Yeah, and you're telling me that the guys he beat in the 80's were better than Ribalta, Williams and Coetzer? In fact, outside of McCall (which happened in the 90's, not the 80's) Williams and Coetzer are as good as any win he's ever had.

He had been fighting six months before the Lewis fight, and six months before that fight as well. That's plenty of activity. His best wins were around this period as well as his best performances (Lewis, McCall).

True, but there are other factors that enter here. Bruno had a damaged eye fom the McCall fight and wasn't given time to heal because Don had already set him up with his money maker, Tyson, 3 months later. On top of that, he had already been knocked out by Tyson. This resulted in him having no confidence at all and being nervous as hell. I think he made something like 4 crosses just on his way to the ring.

Well, it's the difference between beating an average fighter (McCall), or getting knocked out by an average fighter (Smith). That is enough for me.

About the alphabet belt: McCall had beaten Lewis, who rightfully had the belt because Bowe ducked him. This was a great win and his championship belt was rightfully in that he was at the top of the list. Seldon, on the other hand, won it from Tucker who did **** all to be in a title eliminator. That belt has much less significance.

Well it's just a landslide, boring win over a mediocre fighter. Big deal. I don't see how this is a bad mark on his record. Ali had countless number of boring fights.

You didn't answer my question. Do you give Ali less credit for the Lyle or Young fights because they were boring? (apart from whether you thought Ali deserved to win or not)

Mercer got off a year lay-off as well.
I think you over-estimate this lay-off a bit. During the fight, the commentators even said that neither man looked any bit affected by the lay off and how both Holyfield and Mercer looked very sharp. Liakhovic fought a great fight against Brewster after a year lay-off. Lewis fought a great fight against Tyson after a year of inactivity. Etc etc.

Also, it was just slightly more decisive. I had it 96-94 for Holyfield with a lot of close rounds. So that's only one point more than Lewis had. It simply looked a lot less close because the crowd went crazy whenever Mercer missed a punch on Lewis, went silent when Lewis landed a flush combination, and went wild when Holyfield threw or landed on Mercer.

Yep, although most people had it 6-4 for Lewis, despite Mercer having a nationality and crowd advantage.

 

Bowe had a lot more trouble with Biggs in comparison to either Tyson or Lewis, after his attempt at an early knockout went nowhere.

 

I guess you haven't seen his fights against Briggs, Golota Grant and Ruddock then. What about Klitchsko too.

Far from boring, mate. :roll: