Lennox Lewis v Muhammad Ali

Ali by comftorable UD.

 

I think LL's slight ponderousness plays beautifully into Alis hands. Meanwhile, LL does not offer enough in return to trouble Ali, other than the occasional clean right cross. I think LL would struggle to land his jab on a dancing, alert 208 lb Ali.

Ali to win 12 or 13 rounds outright in a one-sided 15 round fight

 

I love debating you man - you are a fierce competitor for your positions, and I respect that. BUt you're DEAD WRONG here. Neither McCall OR Rahman were known as particularly heavy hitters UNTIL they starched Lewis. Their reps as "punchers" are almost entirely made off the Lewis fight.

Look at Rahman - two fights with glass-jawed Oleg Maskaev, who is another guys whose power is overrated, btw - and he couldn't even put him on the canvas. At least McCall managed that. On the other hand he couldn't take out china-chinned Frank Bruno. These guys are basically "one hit wonders" - and Lewis was their one hit!!

As far as Lewis not getting laid out by Tua, or Mercer - who are probably the hardest hitters he's faced, well I credit the adjustments he and Manny made after the McCall debacle. And it's one of the reasons that Lewis IS an ATG - they worked on defensive techniques, blocking punches, rolling with punches, etc. - and it worked beautifully.

In fact, given Lewis' shaky chin, if it wasn't for the McCall and Rahman KOs and the fact that he faced old versions of Holyfield and Tyson and didn't face Bowe - I'd probably put him in the top five, achievement wise!

 

Ali gets a boxing lesson and loses by wide margin, and even that because he chooses to run and survive, 'coz he knows if he tries to stand up and fight, he's getting KTFO.

 

I don't see how some of you think Lewis would have a chance. IMO this would be a completely boring fight. You're saying size and strength is an issue here, but I don't think it is, if anything Lewis's size and therefore lack of speed would be working against him. Ali's agility would neutralize the power edge of Lewis, who's ponderous fighting style would negate such advantages even moreso.

Ali UD 15

 

Ali's agility in fixed fights with Liston? Or his agility against Doug Jones and Henry Cooper?

 

Not a prime Tyson, Tyson would blast him in 3 rounds or less peak/peak. The difference here is that Tyson does possess 1 punch KO power at his peak, and Lewis WOULD be driven back.

 

Doug Jones was an early fight for Ali, and Henry Cooper caught him so what? It happens everyday to fighters around the world. It happend to Lewis twice, but the catch is, he didn't get up. and yes Ali's fights VS Liston are good comparisons (fixed? ok.). Liston had the relativly same reach, power, and probobly more speed than Lewis, and got circles danced around him.

 

Ali UD. Too fast. That's as deep as I'm gonna go, these matchups have been done too many times.

 

Lewis could potentially give him fits, however I think Ali's ring smarts and movement would eventually allow him to win a decision (though he could well be dropped during the fight)

Dancing Pre-Vietnam Ali: Wins, by wide UD. Boxing and moving.
Early mid-70's Ali: Wins a more close decision (9-6 in rounds)

 

I disagree on both counts. Lennox, it's absurd to feel that a fighter with a shaky chin, whom can be bullied about and outworked at times can beat a prime Tyson.

Holmes, a case can be made, but Holmes was not shot by any means and I feel a prime Holmes would have lasted a few rounds later, or would have lost a good UD.

 

Good post. I concur. :good

 

Because he has nothing to brag about in first part of his career.
As for post-exile Ali, his legs and his agility have diminished so much, that I don't see any other result than a KO win for Lewis, Ali was there to be hit whenever Lewis chose to.

Lewis was a much better boxer than Liston, more skilled, better footwork, harder hitter (although his jab is less powerful than Sonny's, but his right hand is better), less predictable than Liston.

 

I don't see Ali having too many problems with Lewis - Lewis would be too frustrated trying to establish his jab, that he wouldn't be able to get set, much like Liston. Ali was too fast, his reflexes were too sharp, and used the ring too well for Lewis - I think Lewis would steal a few rounds early on, if he pressed the action while Ali took it easy (Much like his matchup against Ernie Terrell) but Lewis would tire down the stretch and end up suffering a relatively wide UD to the boxer with better conditioning, spirit, speed and footwork.

I don't think Ali could make Lewis "respect" him with his power, like some have suggested, I'm still not buying the Lennox Lewis "china chin" theory, but I don't think Lewis was able to apply the sort of pressure neccessary to defeat Ali.

Oh, and I don't think Lewis is neccessarily better than Liston, not the case at all in my opinion, but I think Lewis would trouble Ali to a greater extent partially because he was put together a lot better psychologically than Liston. Lewis may have lacked some heart, but he was not nearly as messed up in the mind as Liston. Ali was a bad stylistic matchup for Liston and thus he crumbled.

 

The jab theory is rubbish. Tyson only had troubles with a strong effective jab when
a) he abandoned his own jab when making his way inside
b) he abandoned his head movement, and
c) he abandoned roadwork among other things which made him flatfooted and easier to hit alot quicker in a bout.

At this point Tyson relied on "busting" his way into range against his opponents and looking for one big shot to end or change the fight. This was not the case in the prime of Tysons career though, as I think is evident from the footage.

In fact, I would say Pinklon Thomas and Larry Holmes offered two of the best jabs Tyson came across in his career - And he was a master of slipping the jab, getting inside and bombing his opponents. And if you threw the jab lazily, a la Carl Williams, he could counter it directly and end the fight in an instant.

Tyson was excellent at working off the jab of his opponent to mount his own offense.