Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Jul 25, 2015.
Is this a comedy thread?
Lennox beats Marciano with ease.
As does Holyfield.
Defense isn’t even close. Marciano was MUCH harder to hit. Chin is an edge to Marciano. If u want to stretch it and say even I’d give u a maybe. Endurance no edge? Are you joking lmao talk about intellectual dishonesty. Marciano by a mile. And adaptability I’d say is about even. Marciano had to adjust his game plan on the fly in several fights and came out ahead.
Marciano was not hard to hit at all. He was always there. A shot shell of Joe Louis hit Marciano at will.
OK in your honest opinion (if possible of course). Do you think Marciano goes the distance with Bowe 2X and beats him once? Do you think Marciano goes 11 with Tyson let alone wins?
Perhaps you missed the part where I said slight edge to Marciano? Holyfield's endurance was tested against modern skilled SHWs who were just a wee bit different than the club fighters, and retirement home residents Marciano primarily went life and death with.
Lol! Who are you trying to kid? Marciano fought ONE WAY. Moving forward, never giving an inch. He had no boxing skills to speak of unlike Holyfield who could box, brawl, and fight at all ranges. Please tell me Marciano could do the same. I need a laugh
Lewis KO 3.
When was Marciano's endurance proven against a super heavyweight of any quality? Marciano was cut in all his major fights.Old Louis called him just a street brawler and had no difficulty catching him with the jab ,where is this great defence? Marciano's chin is better than Lewis' based on all the superheavyweights he faced?
The Mercer's ,Morrison's,Ruddocks,Vitali's,Bruno's,Grants.Golota's,Tyson's,Mason's,Weaver's Butler's he faced .
He was struggling with Lowry, dropped by188lbs 39/40years old Moore for a 4 count in which he blacked out, and floored by a 38years old, 192lbs Walcott.Marciano's chin is totally unproven against decent modern -sized heavyweights that can bang!
You seriously believe Marciano hit harder than Lewis?
ps How many rounds do you think Lastarza and Cokkell go with Lennox?LOL
There’s a lot in here I never said or was misconstrued. Never did I say Lewis didn’t hit as hard as Marciano or harder. Lewis probably hit harder. Marciano wasn’t prime for Louis fight. What he thought of him at the moment is sort of irrelevant. Especially considering he knocked him out. When one watches the fight he really had little to no trouble with Louis regardless. Having endurance against a shw or reg Hw what’s the difference? Maybe the leaning if one is good at it (as Lewis was)? Marciano didn’t face many shws but he did knock out all that he faced.
No shame in getting knocked down by Moore. He knocked a lot of HWs out. Many much larger then Marciano. It’s not like he was out on his feet it was a flash knock down with zero after affect judging by the film. Holyfield was almost knocked out by 40 or 41 year old foreman (would have knocked him out had he pushed little harder that fourth round). Age doesn’t mean much. I will give you the argument that his chin wasn’t tested enough. I think that’s fine, but there’s no evidence that it wouldn’t hold up. Or that it was worse then Holyfield’s.
Went back and reread it was comparing Marciano to Holyfield not Lewis. Lewis was the harder hitter imo and better at most things except maybe endurance and defense.
You’re knowledge of Marciano is not only wrong but very limited. His defense and style was far and away better then Holyfield’s. Luckily we have stats for these things. If you’d like to compare endurance and defensive stats let me know. Marciano BLOWS him away in both categories. So much so it’s embarrass that you’d argue against. I would advise a little more scientific breakdown of the Rock and his style. His crouch and lean style made him an elusive target and he was actually excellent at closing the gap and closing off a ring. Talents Tua lacked. He had a better corner then most and was not a traditional boxer in the sense but has a great style for his limitations and qualities.
Lewis would stop him very early .. no knock on Marciano .. Lewis is likely the best super heavyweight of all time .. to give up six inches in height , sixteen in reach, forty five plus pounds of solid muscle to a supremely smart and talented giant is a hell of a undertaking ..
He lost 3 of the first 6 rounds against Louis.Foreman could knock out a ****ing horse probably even now!
He would send Marcianao into orbit! Marciano never met a SHW of any class There is no evidence whatsoever that he could absorb the punches of SHY who is a top puncher . Marciano blacked out in the kd against Moore.he said so himself.
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Marciano was brave and tough, elusive he was not!
Rocky won his every fight and considering this most important fact nothing proves a Lewis(who has two brutal ko losses against mediocre fighters) win. Maybe you can bring lot of unimportant problems in Marciano's carrier but still Marciano is unbeaten .
Rocky deserves more respect !!!
He gets respect ,what he doesn't get is a realistic chance of beating a man 7 inches taller,55lbs heavier with 16 inches reach on him!
ps Its not winning every fight ,it's who you are fighting?
Who of Marciano's victims would Lewis not beat, and probably a lot quicker?
Does light heavy Ted Lowry, a journeyman go the distance twice with Lewis with many believing he was robbed in their 1st fight?
Does Red Applegate go the distance with Lewis?
Does Roland Lastarza ,[ in their 1 st fight ]go the distance with Lewis, and into the 11 th in the rematch?
Does Cokkell go 9 rds withLewis?
39/40 years old Moore?
38 years old Walcott ,does he floor Lewis and lead him on points into the 13thrd
Does Marciano beat Tyson,Holyfield,Vitali?
Take your time answering I'm here most days.
I understand your- otherwise- seemingly good arguments but these isn't so big problems .True Rocky
couldn't knock everybody out but still his ko percentage is better than Lewis'. Moreover considering
Lewis' Mason,McCall and Vitali kos his power ko victim list isn't so remarkable.
Of course you have lot of questions and i respect your communicative style but these things can't show
bigger problems like Lewis' ko losses.
All in all i strongly believe Marciano was better than the Lewis version hopeless Tyson or the shot Holy and Vitali cut ko win was very lucky
considering Lewis lost 4 rounds/6 and this wasn't an impressive performance by Lennox.
He was elusive and the stats and film back it up. It’s very difficult to find a clip of him getting hit with two clean shots in a row. He did have bad skin. There is zero proof that he couldn’t take those shots. Zero. Using two examples of obvious flash knockdowns that has zero affect in the aftermath actually strengths the argument of a fantastic chin with great recoopersting abilities . That being said I think you place way to much emphasis on weight in today’s fighters. It’s not hard at all to gain functional weight today . Especially with modern work out methods and supplements legal or illegal. I don’t think Marciano comes in at 188 today it wouldn’t work. I won’t argue that point Would be to hard to stay in position with that much difference. Men like Ali, Louis, Holmes, Frazier, Foreman, Dempsey, etc would be much heavier or lighter today depending on where they wanted to fight at. But gaining weight is not a skill. Rather easy actually. Style is what matters to me. Would he be as affective heavier? Who knows I would think so. When discussing HWs. Lewis had the power and style to beat Marciano no matter what weight. Holyfield certainly did not.
The difference between Marciano and Lewis is the difference between a Jr. Middleweight fighting a light heavyweight ... think about that .. the body weight percentages differences ..there is a reason there are weight divisions.
It’s no slight on Marciano to say he loses this.