Lennox Lewis vs. Corrie Sanders.

Rahman came in at his highest weight since he turned pro, 7lbs heavier than his previous fight and his fight after Sanders. If that's peak condition you must think Andy Ruiz is the ultimate example of the human form lol.

Sanders didn't do any road work or spar? Maybe he didn't or maybe that was just an excuse and even if it's true when did Sanders ever train that hard, he wasn't a gym rat and known to be lazy. Fact is he came in at 225lbs which for him was peak weight.

Those ancient fighters were ATG's I'd pick Foreman and Holmes over Nate Tubbs even the old versions Moorer and Mercer fought.

 

He bulked up in the gym. It's not fat, its muscle. And again, the commentators remark on it. "He's muscled up, and added 7 or 8 hard pounds" Here. See for yourself at 5:05:

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Yes

“Corrie just ran out of steam against Rahman,” says trainer/manager Harold Volbrecht, “Corrie was unable to do his roadwork before that bout, due to a knee injury. We wanted to postpone the Rahman fight. It was a good offer, however, so we went ahead with it.”

https://mg.co.za/article/2001-01-12-sanders-still-aiming-for-bout-with-lewis/

Fact is that weight doesn't matter as much as the training that you do beforehand. If you can't do cardio work then there's no surprise that your cardio will suck. And if you think Sanders never trained hard then you are exposing your lack of knowledge on his career. I'm guessing you've seen 2-4 fights of his and that's it. Sanders could go 12 easy when he was in shape.

He got caught. Stop press! The same as Lewis got caught against Rahman. If you're seriously suggesting that Sanders couldn't beat Tubbs then I can't help you.

 

You shouldn't believe everything people say, the commentary team said Kownacki looked in better shape vs Helenius and that he had added muscle when it was pretty clear to anyone with eyes he'd just gotten fatter. It's the job of the commentary team to sell the fight to the public, so when a fighter shows up heavy they often say he looks in shape or says, yes he's fat but he proven he can go 12 rounds. It's BS, all they are doing is polishing a turd to sell to the viewers.

Rahman looked soft to me and he lost the 7lbs in his next fight about 11 weeks later. Losing 7lbs of muscle in 11 weeks is not easy to do, 7lbs of fat though can easily be done in that time.

When has Sanders stamina ever been that great, him not running doesn't mean he couldn't of done other cardio, like swimming or biking. If he really stopped doing any form of Cardio then he and his team are morons. Yeah he faded vs Rahman but that's not unexpected from Sanders as he's never had great stamina it's not like he was only out of condition for Rahman alone.

Yes he got caught vs Tubbs but Tubbs wasn't a puncher while Rahman is a big puncher and the rest of Lewis resume suggests he was far better than his losses suggested. While Sander's also proved vs Wlad he was better than the Tubbs lost suggested he did little else in his career and Wlad also had losses to guys like Purrity and Brewster early on so it's not like beating that Wlad was something only a top fighter could do. Sanders simply lacks to the names on his record to suggest he is anything other than a flash in the pan, a guy who could be dangerous but was never a top heavyweight.

 

So, a completely different fight is relevant to this?

If he looked soft to you then you need to look again. Meanwhile in real life, we can see that Rahman had hired an actual weight lifting and conditioning expert which accounts for his increased musculature:

"Rahman tonight will be in his third fight under co-managers Stan Hoffman and Steve Nelson, New York-based conditioning and weight lifting guru Bruce Blair and 41-year veteran trainer Adrian Davis, who has worked with Washington-area world champs Sharmba Mitchell and William Joppy."

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-2000-08-04-0008040162-story.html

and before you jump in with yet another far fetched line about Rahman not actually pushing weights to bulk up just because he hired a weight lifting coach, I'll cut you off:

"In between fights, Rahman has always worked with weights. To prepare for the rematch, the team is utilizing the same plan that got them the titles on April 22, only with an even greater intensity. Rock started his training regiment pumping iron, heavily. Rock has said time-and-time again that he will come in stronger for this fight and now bench presses over 500 pounds."

https://www.boxing247.com/Hasim-Rahman-Interview.html

The 12th round starts at 38:25 :

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Notice Sanders is dancing around, on his toes, while showing good lateral movement in both directions. He's pumping the jab and looks like anything but a fighter with bad cardio.

About 80% of Tubbs' wins were by KO.

I'd say it proved that he was at least on the level of Rahman and Mercer, who Wlad malleted.

If you look closer there are several champions on there that he beat and often in devastating fashion.

Now, with regard to the actual purpose of the thread, you would have to favour Lewis on pedigree and all round skillset, but I'd also make the case that he was within reach of Sanders to beat.

 

Unless he underestimates Sanders and gets brutally KTFO which was a mistake he was not immune to and which Sanders would be a prime candidate for.

But yeah, an alert LL is on a whole nother level.

 

It's relevant because it shows you can't believe what commentary teams say, as I said they have a job to do and that's to sell a fight.

OK lets assume it was muscle not fat as I believe, then why lose all that hard earned muscle 11 weeks later? Fact is the extra weight didn't help him, he looked poor vs Sanders. Whether it was fat or muscle it made him a worse fighter which is why he dropped down in weight in his very next fight against a journeymen and also kept the weight off the fight after when he beat Lewis. So regardless if it was fat or muscle Sanders couldn't beat a less than 100% Rahman.

As for Sander's stamina, sure it's easy to look fresh in later rounds you've controlled harder to do so when you've been pushed in most rounds. Foreman in his prime went 10 rounds prior to Ali with no problem but then gassed vs

Yeah he beat some faded former cruiserweight champions, that's not exactly a positive. His resume sucked outside of the Wlad win and he was never a top contender at the time for a reason. He wasn't some avoided fighter or guy that never got a break, he had opportunities like the Rahman fight and fell short for a reason.

Could he beat Lewis, sure the Lewis that showed up ironically for Rahman would of probably lost to Sanders, that Lewis would lose to a lot of solid fighters with a punch, Lewis was that poor for that fight. But at their best Lewis would make quick work of Sanders and I stand firm in my opinion that top contender or champions like Moorer and Tua were better than Sanders. They beat better men that Sanders faced when they were tested they didn't fold like Sanders did.

 

In this case, however, you clearly can.

Diet? Cardio? Change of plan?

I'd say he looked good, in the sense that he took some bombs and kept going. He walked through fire and got the W.

And maybe they'd have stretchered a lighter Rahman out of there. In fact I think the extra weight helped his punch resistance.

If you had watched the Sanders / Rahman fight, Sanders was thumping Rahman early on. Clearly your reasoning doesn't hold out here.

There we go.

Actually it was Rahman challenging Sanders for his WBU belt. Look it up.

I stand firm in my opinion that you simply don't know what you are talking about in this case, and I have demonstrated it. Neither of those two you mentioned has any win as good as Wladimir on their ledger.

 

You say he looked good, I say he looked poor. Either way it's a matter of opinion, neither of us can claim 100% certainty. What is certain is Sanders lost and other than Wlad he's always failed when stepping up.

Maybe a lighter Rahman gets KO'ed maybe not, again pure conjecture. You could say the same of my opinion Rahman coming in heavy was a negative but then why did he come in lighter his next fight and for Lewis the biggest fight of his career. If it was an advantage to come in heavier vs Sanders surely he would have kept those extra 7lbs on. But fact is he didn't which supports my view he wasn't in his best condition and that was also the view of Manny Steward too who was commentating.

I've watched Rahman/Sanders a few times, it's a very entertaining fight. Yes he had Rahman almost beaten early but he couldn't close the show, faded like he did vs Vitali and got stopped. Rahman proved he was the better man even when showing up 7lbs heavier.

Yes the WBU title wow nobody cared about that belt then and nobody cares about that belt now. And when I say an opportunity I don't mean Rahman was some big name at the time, he was a fringe contender like Sanders at the time having lost to Tua and Maskaev but a win would of earned Sanders some much needed recognition.

You don't think Moorer's win over Holyfield is as good as Sanders win over a young Wlad who lost to Purrity and Brewster later on? If that's the case you have your ass so far up Sanders ass it's mind boggling. Sanders beat Wlad who wasn't even 50% of the fighter he would go onto become under Steward. I don't rate Sanders win over Wlad as that great, hell I rate Fury's lacklustre win or AJ's win over an old Wlad over that version of Wlad who had huge flaws.

 

I rate Wlad as far better than Holyfield. Call me when Holyfield dominates heavyweight for a decade.

But since we're here talking about Sanders and Holyfield they have a common opponent. Let's see who looks more impressive:

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Look, Lennox is an all time favorite of mine. Had a very good career. A fight with Saunders was presented to Lennox which he did not take. I think he knew Corrie was wrong for him. A duck? Or a wise career move? You make the call, but to me it did not or does not change my liking for Lennox. In regards to a fight between the 2, Lennox better have been on his game because Corrie had that left hand along with fast hands and loved to throw.

 

Wise career move imho. I don't think Lewis was scared of anybody but Sanders always was a high risk low reward kind of fighter. Why fight him and have a war when there were easier guys around that you could get paid more against?

 

I assume by this logic you rate Ross Purrity, Lamon Brewster and Corrie Sanders over 90's Holyfield then. Just listen to yourself your making truly ludicrous statements here to fit your narrative than Sanders was anything more than a fringe contender.

Wlad who lost to Sanders wasn't anywhere near the fighter he'd become. You're statement devalues the improvements Wlad made under Steward if you think that Sanders beat a Wlad that was anywhere near the fighter he would become.

Do you really believe that prime Wlad under Steward was only slightly better because that means you think he was only slightly better than Purrity, Brewster and Sanders. Personally I think Wlad under Steward beats them all easily.

 

Prime Lennox at his best is one of best heavyweights of all time H2H.

The Rahman and McCall losses as usual are being brought up with no context being considered.

 

Well, ofc western style training is different from 70 ies - till today than am boxing training mainl aim.
The clinch is far more lesser valuable in am fighting ( I don't talk about boxing till 1970 ies ).
Am oly later was more in - out and like this to get more chances that your punch will be scored.
Inside game and clinch does have lesser chances to get something scored.
While am still does have high value if we talk about KDs, KOs and roped boxers battering, it is different.

I think it is good to mix styles and add knowledge.

 

Context here deserves only british hype job in Lewis. Only Lewis, Lewis fans are worst thing in this forum.

Lewis heavily struggled vs over the hill Mike and Holy, won late replacement in Vitali on cuts ( thing Lewis fans love to post here ) and then he also did not had fought his IBF mandatory and still, lol, only LEWIS deserves context and so on.

He was not better than A.J or Fury btw, most likely even far worse.