Lennox Lewis vs Jack Dempsey

Dempsey was the same height and reach as Ray Mercer. His actual reach (arm length) was probably slightly more. And he was quicker on his feet. So I dont see him having trouble landing.

A guy like Marciano or an Archie Moore, sure, I can see them being way short of comfortably being able to land, and very vulnerable to being smothered, clinched, leaned on against Lennox Lewis. But Dempsey was relatively rangey, and he darted in on fast feet.

 

His point was that there hasn't been a 190lbs champion since Neon Leon, and before that (considering he was awful) you must go back to Patterson. That's two in nearly fifty years of time.

Here is the thing.


Since the 60's, men have grown significantly larger than before.

Before the 50's, 210+lbs in shape men were so rare in numbers in society that they did not produce enough talent to consistently be able to beat their smaller counterparts. There was simply not enough talent to produce talented big punchers who could also box a bit, take a punch, etc, all the ingredients that a top10 fighter needs.


From the 60's, when the talent pool over 200lbs became exponentially larger, the 180 lbs heavyweight contender was extinct faster than the dinosaurs after that meteor crashed in Mexico. Perhaps symbolically shown by the one-sidedness of Liston vs Patterson.

So to make things fair, they created the cruiserweight division. With the aid of steroids, the leap to heavyweight could still be made but outside of Holyfield and Byrd, most did not have succes for a long period of time.
Note that steroids among others cause bone growth, which can "naturally" shift your weight, as contradictory as it sounds.

It will be interesting to see how Haye does at heavyweight. He looks very fast, powerful and skilled but with questionable durability. Sounds like the next Moorer but i think he can go further and the division is not as filled with punchers now as it was in '94.



To make an illustrating comparison, why have there rarely been hard-hitting Latino heavyweights? Considering they are so rare, does that mean that Latino heavyweights can't crack?

No, it's because most latino's are very small, which means there is only a tiny heavyweight pool that doesn't produce a lot of boxers with the talent to make it to the top, let alone have punching talent in addition to that. You can be sure that if there's a "Latino division" with no weight restriction, the best fighter will not be a heavyweight, despite a normal top10 heavyweight will most likely beat a normal top10 middleweight.

 

That made me spill my drink over keyboard, haha.

 

i think he was trying to say that Dempsey had the reach, 77 inches, same as Holyfield, which means he could land shots

 

My point is that there's only been one Jack Dempsey in all of history.

I dont see why resorting to such broad generalizing is seen as a good argument.

If I was to say "Dempsey knocked out X, Y and Z easily and they averaged 6'4 and 225 ", you'd say "but there were nowhere near as good as Lennox Lewis !"

 

Maybe Mercer's bulk makes him less easy to manhandle, but I dont think he was necessarily stronger than Jack Dempsey. But strength isn't the key here.

Dempsey's deft footwork and quickness and explosiveness off-sets Lewis's strength on the inside IMO.
Dempsey was expert at using the big men's tactics against them. He threads his short punches through. I think he can deal with the clinches.

Admittedly Lewis's leaning on the back was quite an extreme (and definitely illegal) neutralizing tactic. Dempsey probably has a rough-house tactic (ie.foul) of his own to counter it.

Overweight versions of Tyson (washed-up) and Mercer were certified plodders in comparison to Dempsey.

 

Dempsey cuts a mile off his daily roadwork, has a doughnut after breakfast and comes in (still lean) at 200, he's suddenly earned himself a chance against a "super-heavy"

 

All good points.
I dont put much stock in Tyson's non-success though. Tyson never impressed me in any clinch or wrestling situation in any fight, even (or esp.) in his prime.

Lewis had all those tools you describe, but I think a PRIME Dempsey would be too quick for him. Dempsey approached the massive Willard with zig-zag and lateral movement, not rushing straight on to an uppercut, he sized his mammoth up for a while. He took Fulton out with a counter.
Honestly I believe Dempsey should knock Lewis out quick.

 

lewis by early ko.

fighters of the era that dempsey belonged to can not compete with the modern heavyweights.

 

...and they'd be right. The big men of 80 years ago had nowhere near the skills of Lewis. I mean, that's obvious to anyone who has an idea.