Lennox Lewis vs Jack Dempsey

My dinner with Conteh · Apr 5, 2008

janitor said:

Studies have been performed where actual punching power has been measuresd in diferent fighters and the results have been surprising. It is often not a heavyweight who scores the highest.
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This is possible. However, if they did similar studies in taking a punch then heavyweights would certainly score higher than middleweights and light heavies.
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janitor · Apr 5, 2008

bumdujour said:

i saw some footage of him vs larry gaines. he was twice the size of his opponent and couldnt do a thing. he was so slow it appeared as if he was fighting in slow motion.

his best offense was pushing and grabbing. even butterbean looked more skillfull.
in other words, he was awefull. the only thing about him was that he could take a punch. nothing more.

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The Gains fight was early in Carneras career and he got a lot better after that. If you want to see him at his peak watch the second Sharkey fight. He was prety systematic.

Carnera for all his limitations was prety good from a pure technical standpoint.

Better than Riddick Bowe in fact.

Yes I said it.

as for his victories: most of his fights were supposed to have been fixed. and i can easily see why, cause with his skill it is hard to believe he ever beat a pro fighter.
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There is a lot of cr4p talked about Carneras fixed fights.

The fight in which he beat Jack Sharkey to win the title was not fixed and neither were the fights where he beat Lasky,, Levinsky and Schaff to establish himself as challenger.
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janitor · Apr 5, 2008

My dinner with Conteh said:

janitor said:

This is possible. However, if they did similar studies in taking a punch then heavyweights would certainly score higher than middleweights and light heavies.
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But in this case we know that Lewis dosnt take a better punch than many 190 lb fighters, and perhaps even a few middleweights.
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My dinner with Conteh · Apr 5, 2008

janitor said:

Carnera for all his limitations was prety good from a pure technical standpoint.

Better than Riddick Bowe in fact.
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I just can't take this anymore. I'm out of here, you're embarrassing. Cheerio.*

* Mr Liar. :good
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janitor · Apr 5, 2008

My dinner with Conteh said:

janitor said:

I just can't take this anymore. I'm out of here, you're embarrassing. Cheerio.*

* Mr Liar. :good
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Goodnight sweet prince.
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My dinner with Conteh · Apr 5, 2008

Goodnight midget. Best of luck next time a big bloke gives you a slap. :hi:

janitor · Apr 5, 2008

My dinner with Conteh said:

Goodnight midget. Best of luck next time a big bloke gives you a slap. :hi:
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I am sure my girlfriend will protect me in that event.

Vanboxingfan · Apr 5, 2008

janitor said:

You have to acknowledge that there is a lot less diference in terms of power bettween the hardest hitting 200 pounder and the hardest hitting 240 pounder than there is between the hardest hitting 200 pounder and the hardest hitting 160 pounder.

You also have to ask why.

Studies have been performed where actual punching power has been measuresd in diferent fighters and the results have been surprising. It is often not a heavyweight who scores the highest.

Studies of some disciplines of weight lifting show that totals lifted prety much level off when you get to 200 lbs incidentaly.

I apreciate that common sense say that a bigger fighter will hit harder but the facts seem to fly in the face of common sense here.
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What facts are those, this is merely speculation on your part. Facts are exactly what I'm looking for. And where are these studies, they'd be a good start? You reference them a lot in your discussions but you don't provide anything concrete in terms of who did them, when, and links to where they are. So if you're going to cite them fine, but I would prefer a reference because they might be of interest for a number of reasons.

BTW, I'm not trying to be cheeky, I just think if you're going to make these assertions and quote studies, I would like to see these studies for myself, it might enlighten me on topic. Not sure about the weightlifting studies but I would suggest they're pretty much irrelevant regardless of what they conclude, it's an entirely different application of strength.
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janitor · Apr 5, 2008

Vanboxingfan said:

janitor said:

What facts are those, this is merely speculation on your part. Facts are exactly what I'm looking for. And where are these studies, they'd be a good start? You reference them a lot in your discussions but you don't provide anything concrete in terms of who did them, when, and links to where they are. So if you're going to cite them fine, but I would prefer a reference because they might be of interest for a number of reasons.
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Look around you.

Nobody here is saying that Lewis hit significantly harder than any 210 pounder including you.

Cross trainer is the guy to speak to if you wnat to see the studies of punching power.
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BLOODLUST · Apr 5, 2008

Lennox Lewis by decapitation in round 1. Dempsey is so overrated even for a old time fighter who by the way suck compared to modern fighters. :good

Bokaj · Apr 5, 2008

janitor said:

Carnera for all his limitations was prety good from a pure technical standpoint.

Better than Riddick Bowe in fact.

Yes I said it.

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Yepp, it seems so. Personally I think that's a grotesque overestimation of Carnera, but it's not likely that we will agree on this, so I'll just leave it at that.

If Foreman's punches were telegraphed, Baer's right was delivered with the effing Pony Express, but Carnera still couldn't defend against it. A prime Bowe against Baer... that just wouldn't be fair.
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McGrain · Apr 5, 2008

Sonny's jab said:

Dempsey cuts a mile off his daily roadwork, has a doughnut after breakfast and comes in (still lean) at 200, he's suddenly earned himself a chance against a "super-heavy"
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Yeah, you've picked the right emoticon there chum.

McGrain · Apr 5, 2008

Sonny's jab said:

All good points.
I dont put much stock in Tyson's non-success though. Tyson never impressed me in any clinch or wrestling situation in any fight, even (or esp.) in his prime.

Lewis had all those tools you describe, but I think a PRIME Dempsey would be too quick for him. Dempsey approached the massive Willard with zig-zag and lateral movement, not rushing straight on to an uppercut, he sized his mammoth up for a while. He took Fulton out with a counter.
Honestly I believe Dempsey should knock Lewis out quick.
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OK; Fair points - i'll admit the possiblility that things could pan out as you describe, remind you that I disagree and we'll leave it at that.

20 pages, I mean Christ...

McGrain · Apr 5, 2008

janitor said:

Dempsey was only in trouble because he fell out of the ring and hit his head on a typewriter. If Firpo had half punched half shoved Dempsey to the canvas at ring centre he would not have helped his cause greatly.
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I'm not interested in helping his case; we've already agreed, Dempsey outclassed Firpo. I'm interested in my case for Lewis. If Dempsey can be dropped by a big crude (Relative) fighter, he will probably be dropped by the more accurate, more powerful, more composed, technically superior, harder punching Lewis.

There is nothing about this fight to suggest that the key to beating Dempsey is to find a better version of Firpo.
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Apart from the above!!

In addition, anyone describing Lewis as "a better version of Firpo" has some explaining to do...

I dont think that there is.

Like Mike Tyson, Dempsey went hell for leather in the first few rounds but if he didnt get his early knockout he set a more measured pace from round 4 onwards.
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...I think this is exactly what Jack Johnson means. Exactly. Dempsey the "measured, paced" boxer is dangerous, but nothing like as dangerous as the early destroyer. The measured version is lunch for Lennox Lewis.

RoccoMarciano · Apr 5, 2008

janitor said:

My dinner with Conteh said:

Goodnight sweet prince.
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Come on.. where is the love?
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