Lennox Lewis vs Jack Dempsey

Hey, Louis came in at 203 5 years later. For whatever reason he carried a few extra's vs Walcott. But yeah, that must be why i am putting a bit of beef on

 

I totally disagree with the above, just average out all their weights from say their peak 5 years or whatever and Louis is bigger and Jack doesn't fit at 197. If Dempsey came in at 212 for some reason in one fight he'd be a 210 pounder + bracket? Not at all. The plain fact is that Dempsey in prime fighting trim is an old scale cruiser and there's nothing to debate as far as i can see.

 

"Old scale" was 190 pounds.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I think he's too small to fight guys like Foreman and Lewis and i think Louis and Frazier would overpower him too in good fights. He's be competitive and dangerous against those two i'd say.

 

Well i guess the simple fact is that i see the weight as an issue and you don't. Each to their own of course.

 

"size matters"

Yes, it does, but it isn't the whole show. Out where I live the ranchers are always fretting about the losses of their cattle to mountain lions, but a cow is much bigger than a mountain lion.

 

Well, no. You are taking Dempsey's highest weight and comparing it to Frazier or Louis' lowest. The two Joes generally weighed over 200 lbs at their best. Dempsey frequently weighed under 190. When Jack weighed 197 he was obviously not at his top fighting weight anymore than Louis was at 218 or Frazier at 224.

That said, I doubt the few pounds difference between these men is the critical factor in comparing them to Lewis.

 

I believe Dempsey was similar to Duran in many ways.

I believe what Ray Arcel said about Dempsey having all that natural ability.

The footage of a prime Dempsey (1919) does show a fighter of remarkable movement, mobility and athleticism. He's nothing like a "flat-footed" and "primitive" fighter.

Dempsey's book "Championship Fighting" suggests he was a fighter with an unusually scientific understanding of boxing.

I believe what Ray Arcel, Lou Stillman, Max Schmeling, Jack Sharkey, Hype Igoe and all those men of that time recounted on Jack Dempsey.

The few minutes of relatively grainy footage of a prime Dempsey (v.Willard, sparring with Bill Tate) and some later footage of a declining Dempsey (v. Carpentier, v Gibbons) do not contradict the testimony of those men who saw him up close.

Dempsey impresses me on film.
I think he was all that.

I used to underrate him. Used to have many of the same views the sceptics here hold. Then I actually bothered to study the film, research the subject thoroughly, listen to other opinions with an open mind, and came to the conclusion that Dempsey was most of what they said he was.

It would be a step back for me to really take the Dempsey sceptics here too seriously. Those views are legitimate but, from my perspective, somehat primitive.

Frankly, Dempsey is the last person in the world who needs his reputation "defending". It's inevitable that revisionist historians will start obscuring and distorting the status of those fighters of yesteryear. But those opinions carry very little weight compared to what Arcel et al. had to say. Dempsey's status as one of history's finest fighters is solid among those who seriously care about boxing history.

 

Louis was at his best at 206lbs vs Baer II, Frazier was at his best at 206 lbs vs Ali I. Dempsey was at his best at 188lbs against Willard.

The former two have a good 18 pounds on Dempsey, i think that is significant.

But what is much more significant is that Louis was a far superior and more proven fighter. I am also more impressed by Frazier, although he does have the slow starters problem that Dempsey doesn't have.

I wouldn't pick Frazier over Lewis however and a fight between Lennox and Louis is a tossup in my opinion, although Joe Louis is clearly the greater and more accomplished fighter.

 

Dempsey was lik 6 foot 1 inch and between 88-92 lbs, if someone is 14 lbs heavier its not that huge.

 

I tell you what.

Count the number of punches Duran slips per round against Leonard and then count the number per round that Dempsey slips against Gibbons.

You might see that this claim is not as far fetched as you think.

Either way I can asure you that his defence was a lot better than Marcianos.