Lennox Lewis vs Jack Dempsey

What's the point in this?

If I told you I watched every punch he ever landed... my opinion of him wouldn't change at all.

 

Yes, but if you've seen like 2 of his fights, well.......

 

It is more than two. However, if you have one you think I should watch that would change my view of him (which it wouldn't) post your suggestion.

 

Ah ok, so your view is more personal related than boxing, like with Tyson. No worries, if your mind is made up she's made up.

I didn't really go for Marciano's hairy man chest much either

:smoke

 

Tyson has many issues that can be argued that are negative by people other than me. Did the guy help promote boxing, or did he do more to damage the sport? The choice is up to each to decide for themselves. It's my own view he did more to ruin himself than any boxer ever has, and this in turn helped to harm boxing as a sport. As far as Tyson's boxing skill is concerned, he was one of the best at HW for a brief period.

Hearns did some great things! I'll give him that credit. Was he a good representative of the sport? Each can make their own judgement on that one.

 

BTW, call me Roberta, baby!!!

 

A fine name, although I can't see any importance regarding either Tyson or Hearns. Was this some female Tyson raped, or a person Hearns was married to?

I'm more than happy to call you a Johnette, if that is what you wish. Simple fact of the matter is I've a immensely difficult time trying to figure out how a Roberta may, or may not be, some how, associated with a Tyson or Hearns???

Did I miss something? (I'm willing to grant Hearns may have married a woman by this name)

 

Well it was only one page back Rocco!!

 

Never mind

Hearns gets brought up... well we know what thoughts that brings up, John

 

Duran, Cuevas and Roldan face first?

 

Duran should have grown a longer beard! That's the ticket, roo

 

I want to make two points:
1. I am neutral on the morality of using steroids or other supplements. Just too old to be moralistic.

2. My views are shaped by what I see in other sports popular in the United States in which steroids are used.

NFL gridiron football draws its players entirely from the American population. The population of the United States has increased by one-third since the 1950's. In the 1950's the NFL had perhaps 2 or 3 players who weighed 300 lbs. Now it has several hundred. Even as late as the 1970's, this was not true. The largest player on the 1972 Miami Dolphins was 265 lbs. The largest player on the Pittsburg Steelers of the 1970's was 275 lbs. Almost midgets by modern standards. It is difficult to believe that the talent pool became that big that suddenly in the 1980's and 1990's. Prior to the 1980's, very tall men in the 6' 7" to 6' 9" range such as Doug Atkins, Ed Jones, Buck Buchanan, Bob St Clair, Ted Hendricks, and Ben Davidson played well under 300 lbs.
Even granting that the general population is getting bigger, the only plausible explanation I see is that modern players are heavier because of HGH and other supplements.

In baseball, the great home run hitters of the 1930's to 1970's and even 1980's--Foxx, Mantle, Mays, Aaron, etc all weighed less than 200 lbs, sometimes much less. Mantle hit the ball farther than anyone and was 5' 11" and 185 lbs. Mays and Aaron were even lighter--Home run champion Aaron was 6' and 175 lbs. Barry Bonds at 6' 2" but a svelte 185 lbs was one of the better, if not the best, homerun hitter of the late 1980's and 1990's. It seems certain he went on steroids. He grew to 230 to 250 lbs of bulging muscle and began in his late 30's to perform better than he had earlier and in fact better than anyone ever had, hitting as many as 73 home runs in one season--the pre steroidal best was 61.
Bonds would have been the best home run hitter of his era without steroids, but it would have been in the 180 to 200 lb range as with most of the earlier stars. With steroids widely used, he was still the best home run hitter of his era, but at 230 lbs.

Now in boxing, I think it is somewhat the same process. Mike Tyson would have been the biggest puncher of the 1980's and 1990's whether using supplements or not, but without supplements he might have fought at 190 rather than at 220 and he would be another slugger to put on the scale with Dempsey, Louis, and Marciano rather than Foreman, Lewis, and Wlad Klitschko.

 

I am not that well known with American Football nor with baseball at a professional level (i did play and love it when i was young), but my impression is that at both baseball and football, the benefits of steroids are much larger than at boxing.

Physical strength is extremely important at football and in addition to that, there are a lot of breaks where players can briefly rest, further enhancing the benefit of bulking up via steroids.

At baseball it is less extreme but still similar: there are a lot of breaks so stamina is not a big issue, basically all you need is power and sprinting ability, which is also explosive power.

In boxing, power is obviously also important, but stamina, flexibility and quickness are at least as important, so the benefits from steroid are a bit less.





By the way, what is the reason that you think Tyson was on steroids? I've heard stories of him being 190 pounds at the age of 14, but i've also read about him going from roughly 200 to 215 pounds during a relatively short period of time before he went pro. Do you think guys like Foreman or Norton were on them?

 

I think steriods can be used in multiple situations. Certainly if one wants to increase stamina steriods works for this as well, hence the ongoing Tour de France debacle.

 

I can't say about Tyson, and in a sense I don't care, but I do think that IF he did, he is a useless example to prove over 210 lb men punch harder because he might have been the biggest puncher in the world at 195 or so.

My points on baseball & football:
1. Baseball--Barry Bonds' success indicates that bulking up with steroids increases power without slowing reflexes. For boxing, we are more likely to see quick 220 pounders than in earlier generations because they are natural 190 pounders.

2. Football--The prevalence of huge over 300 lb linemen shows that steroids distort the number of big men in the talent pool-in boxing this means that man who might have been 6' 5" and 215 to 220 generations ago, are now 240 to 260 or even bigger. Ernie Terrell fought at less than 200 lbs as late as his fight with Eddie Machen. Today he fights at 240 or above.