Lennox Lewis vs Jack Dempsey

I have seen a quote from Joe Louis to the effect that the hardest puncher he fought was Marciano, which totally undercuts the whole point of these who fought the bigger men arguments.

 

They always do. Old timers love giving it the "Hey, I was there you should have seen him go". I've got a great Ring mag for the 60s where Jim Jacobs is debating with Fleischer about the kind of claims you say above. Everyone looks back through the rose tinted and "swear" they were the best- and then dismiss the quality of film if that's brought into question. Jacobs took that into account in his debate and sped and slowed the films down accordingly.

 

Well, being an old washed up veteren he certainly would have felt them a lot more.

 

In an interview in the sixties I remember. The other guy who knocked him out, Schmeling, was scarcely bigger. Louis was never badly hurt against either of the Baers and who else would you expect him to name?

Louis did say that the guy who hurt him the most was Alex Borchuk with a body punch, but Borchuk was not big either.

 

But when Jacobs wrote for Ring Magazine in 1962 he did say that he thought the best fighters fought between the wars, and specifically mentioned Dempsey, Tunney, and Louis among the heavyweights. His criticism of Fleischer was directed at the real old timers, Corbett, Fitz, and Jeffries, and what he considered the general low level of talent around the turn of the century versus the twenties and thirties.

Fulton is not on film, as far as I know.

 

Joe Louis was never hit byt the Tyson's, Lewis' and dozens of others. There are now layer upon layer of big men over 200 and indeed 220 pounds that can all whack like crazy. They were scarce coddodities back in the day due to various reasons.

 

I actually think that Dempsey vs. RJJ is a more interesting match-up.

If the 50 pounds weight difference between Lewis and Dempsey doesn't mean a thing, then why haven't we seen a 190 lbs HW champ since Patterson? Dempsey was great in his own era, but if he was brought by time-machine forward to fight Lewis in the 1990's the result wouldn't have been pretty.

 

Yes, Joe Louis was never hit by Tyson, Lewis, or the Klitschkos. But what has that to do with how hard he was hit by the 180 to 200 lbers versus the superheavyweights of his own era. He was in fact knocked out by two men under 200 lbs and 8 of his 10 knockouts were by men under 200 lbs, although he did fight some very big men.

"There are now layer upon layer of big men over 200 and indeed 220 pounds that can all whack like crazy."

Louis could whack like crazy. So could Lem Franklin. Turkey Thompson. Buddy Baer. Frankly, the latest heavyweight fights I have watched with Wlad, Sultan, Peter, Maskaev, Chagaev, Ruiz, Valuev, etc, has not shown me all that much terrific punching. This is another beg the issue point. If big men punch harder, why didn't the big men of earlier eras also punch harder? After all, history is fact, not fantasy.

 

When was the last time anyone did anything at heavyweight ?

 

The question is something like, "If Dempsey was good enough to stand any chance against a great 240 pound heavyweight why isn't there a 190 pound guy ripping up the division now ?"

Yeah, if Muhammad Ali was any good why isn't there a super-fast 210 pound charismatic dancing, shuffling phenomenon making waves in the division right now ?

 

I have a mental image of Dempsey crouching low looking to leap in, getting measured, and getting ****ing WHACKED by a huge overhand right hand.

Anyway, Lennox himself has been in some wars, and showed an amazing chin.

I doubt anyone here's seen his fight with Gary Mason.

 

Not to me it doesn't but you do have a point. Size in and of itself doesn't make a big puncher. But on the other hand, I certainly think Lewis, and many others, mostly due to their size, are bigger punchers than Marciano.

 

BINGO, and I'm a huge Dempsey fan, but size makes a difference when skills are somewhat similar.

 

I always marvel at the hype over certain fighters, I have read here that Dempsey was a great boxer as well as slugger who could mix it up and would catch Lewis early.
What Dempsey fights have you people watched? He stalked around the ring in every fight and was outboxed for prolonged periods against guys who were around 13 stone ( 182 lbs)...he had a losing record to part time brawlers like Meehan....and his fight against a robotic, unskilled Willard is held up as an example of how he destroys other big men.atsch

Don't get me wrong he deserves to be talked about as an ATG for several reasons but in a realistic head to head this is a farce. He was a brawler who was also pretty flat footed. Watch his bout with Carpentier....Dempsey looked like a pub fighter, but Carpentier was not even as big as Calzaghe..and so despite outboxing Dempsey for the first three rounds he always looked like getting stopped, he could not hurt him and he looked like a child.

Dempsey would be smashed to pieces by Louis, Foreman, Ali, Frazier, Liston, Tyson, Lewis, Holmes....
To be honest he would be in for a torrid night with sluggers like Marciano, because Rocky was everything Dempsey had but more. When you take the rose tinted glasses off and simply watch the fights objectively, it is quite a shock. I remember I always looked to the past as a shining example of the best boxing and then got more and more tapes in and found myself shocked by overrated certain fights or fighters were.

Compare that to watching Sugar Ray Robinson or watching numerous other long gone legends and the level of ability leaps out at you.

 

Not to mention Patterson was mauled in one round, twice, by Liston, who had superheavy measurments.