Lennox Lewis vs Joe Frazier

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by swagdelfadeel, Dec 13, 2015.



  1. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    That's what I was arguing.
     
  2. jc

    jc Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I can see Lewis knocking him out or out boxing him. He could do both as is his dominance over Fraziers style.
     
  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I'm going for Joe Frazier here.

    The first thing is if it's prime versus prime you cannot include anything after the first fight with Muhammad Ali for Joe. The Foreman fight never happened to that Frazier. He has two eyes and can hit on the way in.

    Prime Lewis would not cope with the tempo and accuracy of a prime Joe Frazier. McCall rushed him. So could Frazier. Yes Lewis has a punchers chance. Yes other fighters took advantage of Fraziers so called slow starts. But Frazier in his prime had incredible accuracy. He still hit the other man hard in rounds he lost. He is not Tua and he is not a shot Mike Tyson. Frazier is also better than Ray Mercer.

    Billups and Garry Mason troubled Lennox Lewis, lennox beat both but a prime Joe Frazier on those nights would wipe the floor with the Lennox who fought those two. Anybody who sees an easy win for Lennox must watch those first and if they came early in his career watch how he gassed winning against Mavrovic in his prime. Holyfeild fought in spurts. He did not have that tempo or power of Frazier yet still he troubled Lennox with all his size advantage.

    To beat Frazier (in his prime not the one Foreman fought) you need a comparable work rate and you need to nail him to the floor. Lewis never had that work rate. He gets hit trying to grab Frazier. Lewis might have the tools to nail Frazuer to their floor but he is having to fight him first. He can't live with that tempo. It's not like Lewis ever got off the floor to win either.
     
  4. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He's definitely hitting the floor with Smoke.
     
  5. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Frazier only had that hook and this is not a punch Lewis was susceptible to. A great fighter like prime Lewis should be able to work out a fight plan to control Fraziers left side and concentrate on his jab and straight right setting Joe up for an uppercut. Pick here is Lewis by mid fight TKO in a fight he controls most of the way.
     
  6. foreman&dempsey

    foreman&dempsey Boxing Addict banned

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    Lmao!!!!! I could not say it better.this idiot is a biased clown with no credibility
     
  7. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No. No You couldn't have. (Not with your tortured english :yep) Even though it's wrong.
     
  8. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    This is plausible but I think a fighter with that tempo and knockout accuracy spells disaster for Lewis. It's absolutely not what Lewis wants in a rival. Tempo and power.

    Lewis needs his breaks and to fight at a walk. He likes to dictate what the other man can do.

    Frazier never let anyone control the pace. Everybody who fought frazuer was forced to fight at an uncomfortable pace. That's when Lennox made mistakes.

    When he was tired and flustered Lewis was half the fighter. Just watch the Mavrovic, Mercer and first Rahman fight.
     
  9. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Again a great fighter in my experience when fighting an opponent with a very obvious flaw generally capitalizes on that flaw. So Lewis keeps to his left which takes the hook away from Joe to a great extent. I think Joe makes Lewis miss many punches but not all. Those that land rattle him to his shoes. Eventually Frazier runs into a right uppercut from hell and he does not recover. Lewis in the end has too many tools and punches too hard for Joe.
     
  10. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Yes it works both ways though. Frazier has a flaw in that he was chiefly one sided. Ok, that gives Lewis something to work with. Lewis has a flaw too, he's one paced. That gives Frazier a lot to work with too.

    Moving away from Fraziers left size is also taking away leverage from Lewis. He's not hitting as hard backing up or circling away. And nobody "took Fraziers hook away" from him. Even fights joe lost he landed that punch. It really was a special punch. Joe could throw it and land it with the success of a jab.

    Lewis has size going for him but without control of the pace I think size will work against him in this fight.
     
  11. bdd123

    bdd123 Member Full Member

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    Frazier had a hook that hit guys that won't "susceptible" to a hook. And given Lewis being lazy at times or unfocused he'd have to be focused for every minute of the fight
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    That's my take on it.
     
  13. Vanboxingfan

    Vanboxingfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I've watched all of these fights, and Mavrovic was a one sided beat down, there's a highlight reel of the number of clean hard punches Lewis landed, and it was extremely impressive, I'd go so far as to say that Frazier would not have lasted the distance if he took the shots that Mavrovic did. And as long as Lewis could control Frazier with his jab, and I don't particular see why he couldn't he could control distance and if necessary box to a decision. He also could very likely land the over hand right several times if his jab is working. Honestly, I don't even see it as all that competitive. Hell even if Frazier gets inside he just might find an upper cut waiting for he for all his troubles. And if you think Ali could lean on Frazier and Foreman push him back, well Lewis could do either. Tyson looked like a midget in the ring against him, as did Tua and so would Frazier.

    Lewis wasn't just a 6'5" fighter, he was a 6'5" who if necessary had an attitude and he would all of the size, power, strength and reach advantages he had very effectively, in fact he probably was the best fighter ever in terms of use his size to his advantage.
     
  14. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Ali could not control Frazier with the jab, he could outscore him with it but never control him with it. The pace and tempo was all Frazier in all of their fights. It would exhaust Lewis to double up the jab and keep up with that pace. He needs room and time to conserve himself and Joe won't give it to him. Then he loses focus. Lewis always did when he was tired.

    Lewis only chance is to blast Frazier to smithereens early - an extreme long shot- otherwise it's over for him. Lewis cannot live with that tempo. This is more of a guarantee than Lewis nailing a prime buzsaw Frazier with enough consecutive shots early without getting hit back. I don't even think George Foreman could do this early enough against a prime Frazier.

    The accuracy and tempo of a prime 1968-1971 Joe Frazier is severely
    underrated. He was leading with power shots up and down. Doubling up both long range and close range using angles. He was quite something for a short time. Frazier had power enough to compete with any sized heavyweight ...and the accuracy.
     
  15. Vanboxingfan

    Vanboxingfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This is a bunch of b.s. as far as l'm concerned. But it makes for a nice fairytale.