Lennox Lewis VS Joe Louis

I'm not handing out a pardon, just putting Louis in the same set of circumstances which is only fair.

I agree. But saying boxer A would have taken a punch without putting him in the shoes of boxer B is a different matter. We have to put Louis in Lewis's exact circumstances for it to be comparable. After all Lewis's exhaustion played a huge part.

Prime is relative to each fight, I don't believe in dating a fighters prime like most do using a time period. The Lewis - Rahman fights are a great example of this. Fight 1 Lewis was far removed from prime but come the 2nd fight he looked a million dollars.

 

Given Louis is going with the best fighter he's faced and was outboxed by Schmelling, Conn and Walcott and was knocked down by many boxers, yes it needs factoring in. If Lennox knocks you down you rarely get off the hook.

In a match up between the 2 Louis is going to get hit more than Lennox and by the biggest best puncher he's faced by a massive distance. Lennox's chin is more proven against big punchers and he is harder to hit and outbox than Louis. But yes let's ignore all that and focus on a freak result against a past prime Lennox who took liberties with his opponent and hope he gives the lighter hitting Louis a free shot.

He hits 10 times as hard as Schmelling though. Schmelling I think is historically greater but Rahman isn't exactly a bum, he earned his shot in that war with Sanders

Louis was ko'd by men far weaker than Lennox was though, sustained beating but they didn't have the same power. It's swings and roundabouts.

No I'm not but you conveniently ignore that a man that is 3-4 times stronger will do far more damage.

You also ignore that many boxers in history would have been given the chance to continue against McCall after beating the count.

 

Well I am off for a weekends climbing in the Lake District, so it is not my problem any more!

 

One thing on this is that far too much is made of Louis chin being shaky...yes he did get rattled from time to time but if you look at most of those knockdowns: Braddock? Te very definition of a flash knockdown don't think Louis is even sure why he went down? And he was up before the ref could start the count - Braddock didn't even have time to make his way to the corner - by the bell it was Braddock again who was taking some big shots....against Galento Louis hit the deck for maybe a second more from being caught off balance/miss timing his forward motion but again he jumped up totally clear headed not in the slightest bit hurt with intent to get back to butchering Galento....Buddy Baer had him out over the middle rope onto the ring apron but Louis climbed back in as if nothing had happened? Was that just momentum/leverage that scooped him over the rope?? He didn't even look hurt when he re entered looking for all the world like someone just coming into te ring for the introductions....and the fight just resumed as though a knockdown hadnt even occurred?...Schmeling obviously hurt Louis but again Louis was back up quick on that first knockdown before Max got to the neutral corner he was ushered back an Louis looked pretty focused in firing shots at Max forcinghim to cover up straight away?...Walcott II Louis got dropped by a perfect counter but again was up within a second and again his legs didn't seem shaky at all and it wasn't long before Walcott was back in defensive mode again - Louis was that kind of puncher....Walcott I again on first knockdown Louis looked more caught by surprise and was having his gloves wiped off again before Walcott had chance to get to the corner and again it was Walcott who was immediately when an unshaken Louis was able to take up where he'd left off again...2nd knockdown was was a heavy one though (a really good hard shot from Walcott) and it really registered this time - the only time Louis actually took a knee and have himself a few seconds to recover - think this is the only knockdown Louis suffered where he was genuinely hurt actually....I know Tommy Farr shook him up with a great shot but again Louis recovered from the shock in a flash and Louis over came shaky moments against Billy Conns flurries to win a classic too so for me Louis actually showed an imperviousness to being really got in trouble properly - Max Schmeling actually thought Louis had a great chin chin? Go figure

 

I have to disagree on this point.

This is true debating. No name calling and no insults and no cynicism or sacarism just for the sake of being a jerk.
It is just a couple of guys who have obviously studied the sport and are all making valid points. Like an educated barber shop debate. I love it.

Bravo to janitor, Powerpuncher, Absolutely!, Vanboxingfan, SP_Mauler, Bummy Davis, and BoxFanNo1 for an awesome discussion.

Side note. There was an ugly post directed at janitor that he handled and diffused like a pro. Ugly comments come and go but that one was masterfully handled.

Great thread and convo. Thanks.

 

yes, he proved that he could get knocked the **** out and hurt by guys like bruno, mccall,rahman...

 

i think that saying the next point " lewis could ko louis because he got knocked out and/or was hurt by smaller men and weaker punchers than lewis like schmeling,bradock,galento..." it is very valid, but i think that louis would have stylistical advantage here, he would finish the job that bruno could not finish, louis was the type of puncher to stop lewis or holmes. clean ko, 10 count

 

I just can't believe how many people here actually think Lewis was a great fighter. I can't fathom the ignorance, it's astounding. He was a 'decent' fighter at best, and easily one of the most over-rated HW champs in history. Someone here actually had the audacity to make the ridiculous suggestion he be considered for the GOAT!?!?!!! I mean "WOW", seriously???....Really?!!! It's a sick generation today!

 

No one is handing out pardons, but come on. You're basing the fact that Louis was down but never KO'd against guys who generally speaking weighted 180lb, then projecting that because he could do that, he could take a clean shot from 230lb Rahman, and you wonder why your getting challenged on this so called "fact".

Boxings a funny sport, who after watching Duran beat Barkley and take his best shots, and knowing that Barkley beat Hearns twice would have been able to account for Hearns being able to starch him? Or who after watching Rahman-Lewis I where Lewis was KO'd would have predicted Lewis would have destroyed him in the rematch? The point being it's an unpredictible sport at best, and focusing on Lewis' worst night to project how he would do against Louis isn't really valid.

If anything focus on both of their best nights and then tell me who wins.

 

Great fighter, no. Better H2H yes.

 

:rofl:rofl you need an urgent lesson of boxing

 

This is the second funniest thing i've read all week, congrats lol! The first, of course, being that Lewis should be considered for the GOAT. LOL! I mean....really....come on lol.

 

I don't look at like Lennox Lewis' chin is well proven and I don't look at it like Lennox Lewis' chin is a bit iffy either - it's more that Joe Louis whenever he was momentarily rattled always held his position in the fight and always took up where he left off - he never showed that he was shaken and it was generally Louis who was back putting desperation in his opponent again dominating the space whereas Lennox Lewis was more prone to fighting scared when he did get nailed and the reaction was more clear and obvious when Lewis was hurt by something and I've seen Lennox more often than not go straight in safety first mode and lose the initiative a bit in fights when he does get nailed - Joe Louis never seemed to - plus there is the issue of Lewis being dropped by one punch by an Oliver McCall who threw the punch with his eyes shut and left Lewis wobbling around on shaky legs when he did get back up so much so that the ref decided to wave it off - Joe Louis was never put it that position by anyone - and obviously Lennox also got flattened for good by one shot from Hasim Rahman aswell because he backed up and gave up command of the situation and let Rahman get through to the perfect position to nail him so cleanly with everything he had - again it's more the thing of I just don't think Joe Louis would've let someone get him into that situation - Joe Louis wasn't that lackadaisical a fighter to give up command of the space